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Choose your own apres-Brexit status

Well,we certainly have the processing power to make this work.
  (+3)
(+3)
  [vote for,
against]

Come the day, login into YouGuv, choose to be inny or an outey.

If you choose inny you don't need a visa to go to the continent, get to keep on with EU science projects and so on, get duty frees etc.

If you are an outey, you get independence from all that EU stuff.

Optional for innies is pay by Euro in the UK (but only by bank card).

not_morrison_rm, Nov 04 2018

[link]






       // get independence from all that EU stuff. //   

       ... and Calais, Aquitaine and Anjou ?
8th of 7, Nov 04 2018
  

       If I were an innie, would I get to keep my human rights, and other mod. cons?
Loris, Nov 05 2018
  

       No.
8th of 7, Nov 05 2018
  

       You should just be required to have your belly button examined at all border crossings. Innies get EU benefits; outies get Brexit benefits. Elective conversion surgery is always available for those unhappy with their existing configuration.
xenzag, Nov 05 2018
  

       //would I get to keep my human rights// - if you're referring to the rights and obligations you have arising from the UK's membership of the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR, established under the European Convention on Human Rights (also ECHR)), then the answer is 'yes', whichever side you're on, because the ECHRs are not part of the European Union and exist under a separate legislative framework. So, despite frothing-at-the-mouth Brexit supporters ranting at these strange foreign human rights (although the UK was a principal author of the ECHR) encroaching on their ability to be nasty to others, Brexit will make no difference in this area.
hippo, Nov 05 2018
  

       I thought that while in the EU you had heuman rights. Ha
xenzag, Nov 05 2018
  

       ^ wa waa waah   

       and you Beata believe it.
not_morrison_rm, Nov 05 2018
  

       iirc, being a signatory to the EConHR and therefore subject to jurisdiction of the ECofHR is a precondition to membership of the EU, so while the mouth-frothers will be able to continue m.-f.ing for a while, leaving the EU removes an obstacle to leaving the ECHRs, allowing them to dream still of being able to be mean to brown people without legal repercussions (this is particularly true of the current prime minister, who made much show of wanting to leave the ECHRs, primarily because (a) they made her job harder and (b) she kept fucking up compliance).   

       The idea itself is, I feel, just a worked example of the "what if you could choose what laws you are required to comply with?" thought experiment / stoner discourse. The nice thing about this example is that the EU was not really concerned with the realms of criminal activity (at least, not primarily) so adopting a maximally granular approach to EU membership doesn't run into mismatches about the right to get biffed in the beezer.   

       We can take a lead from the US Tech Giants by having for each and every person in the UK a file, the primary purpose of which is to record what their chosen jurisdictional framework is. This sort of colossal IT project is of course no problem for the govt. to manage, not least of all because there is the option of C&Ping the Chinese Social Credit Score system and sticking a crown on it.   

       Anyway, the reason for the file is to allow the state to provide the infrastructure for consumer- sorry, individual-led jurisdictional compliance and then make parts of it available to commercial organisations who are then able to bear the admin burden of compliance (just as admin burden of VAT is borne by companies, while (by and large) the cost is borne by consumers). For example, the Brexit-Elect will see prices for products which have WTO tariffs or bilateral-agreement tariffs attached where as the Brexit-Preterite will not have to worry about whether their new kettle has a plug on it or not.   

       In this model, for the Brexit-Preterite the state acts as a middle man between the consumer and the EU. For example, the state will fulfill the terms of the four freedoms insofar as the state can, but, when the Brexit-Preterite state-within-a- state falls into financial ruin, the state proper will enforce EU-mandated crippling austerity. As the state has shown itself perfectly capable of directing austerity so that it harms societal groupings that were even before austerity less likely to vote for the Conservative party, I don't doubt that it has the initiative to be only slightly more targeted about how it metes this out. Especially if we C&P the Chinee SCS system.   

       These primarily technical solutions have one critical added bonus: they allow the side by side comparison of the Elect and Preterite models and, if we're willing to take an anti-Calvinist approach to things, we might allow individuals to make a (limited) number of switches between the two groups, until one group reaches say 75% of the population and, having tried the both options, this supermajority of better informed Crown subjects is enough to fix the UK's position with reference to Brexit.
calum, Nov 05 2018
  

       Clever - rather than the traditional top-down means of setting laws, you're proposing a sort of organic, bottom-up clustering of emergent jurisdictional frameworks. I think these will naturally move from a chaotic soup of many bespoke jurisdictions to just a few, as people decide to go along with their friends, bow to commercial pressures ("5% off if you adopt the John Lewis jurisdiction while in store!"), or are forced into one by their employers ("You can only work here if you follow these laws").
hippo, Nov 05 2018
  

       This could get messy with families and immigrants and Gibraltar...   

       I picture a caste system kind of framework growing by default.
RayfordSteele, Nov 05 2018
  

       Some people will choose a framework with less taxes. How will they be selectively denied the related degree of government services? If you join a framework with 50% lower healthcare taxes does the system automatically put you at a lower priority for health care? What about roads? If you want a framework with less government inspection of eating establishments are your complaints about seeing rats in the kitchen ignored? If your framework offers much smaller education costs will your business be forbidden to hire people from well-funded schools?
Voice, Nov 05 2018
  

       // If you join a framework with 50% lower healthcare taxes does the system automatically put you at a lower priority for health care? //   

       Yes. It's called "The U.S.A."   

       // What about roads? //   

       It's part of Greece (small island in the Aegean, north-east of Crete, one of the Dodecanese), so will remain in the EU (until Greece crashes out of the Euro zone because the Krauts are fed up with picking up the tab).   

       Oh sorry, roads not Rhodes. Pay by use, run by a not-for-profit company independent of central government.   

       // If you want a framework with less government inspection of eating establishments are your complaints about seeing rats in the kitchen ignored? //   

       What, like they are now ? On the plus side, you can take your own .22 rifle and personally address the problem while waiting for your meal.   

       // If your framework offers much smaller education costs will your business be forbidden to hire people from well-funded schools? //   

       No; they pay higher taxes because they had better education, so you have to pay proportionately more for their services.   

       // Gibraltar. //   

       No problem there, once Britain invades and conquers Spain.   

       // to be mean to brown people without legal repercussions (this is particularly true of the current prime minister, //   

       That seems unfair; the current prime minister doesn't display such prejudice, in that she's mean to everyone without fear or favour - not just the heavily suntanned.
8th of 7, Nov 05 2018
  

       Can't you guys stick to talking about our politics like you always do? Brexit, Shmexit
theircompetitor, Nov 05 2018
  

       Regrettably, the Trump Blocker filter ( NetLingo - chrome web store) means I have less than no information about US politics.   

       Paradoxically, even with the Trump filter on, the Trump filter page is still visible on the Chrome Store...
not_morrison_rm, Nov 05 2018
  

       // How will they be selectively denied the related degree of government services? If you join a framework with 50% lower healthcare taxes does the system automatically put you at a lower priority for health care? What about roads?//
So, not a little part of my commentary was nibbling around the amazing stupidity of Her Maj's Government's proposals for a series of *as yet not extant* technical solutions to the otherwise intractable problem of enforcing customs checks when you are unable to impose a hard border between Ireland and Norn Iron).
  

       But! if we are willing to subject ourselves to a Xianjiang- like high tech surveillance state it should be really rather easy to ensure that:
(1) ERDF-funded roads are accessible to only the Brexit-Preterite (which should not be a problem as the areas of the UK with ERDF-funded roads (viz. Scotland) were significantly in favour of remaining as part of the EU)
(2) a lower priority for healthcare is also immensely doable: you queue here for the Brexit-Preterite NHS and here, by the bins, for the US-model Brexit-Elect private health service.
3. The EU doesn't bother its arse too much with primary and secondary education (US: K-12, I think) but yes tons of good research cash is EU-backed and budding PhDs can choose their status to suit their chances of getting that funding.
(4) I don't think that the EU gives a franco- germanic fuck about restaurant inspection - to them capers and rat shit are all the same - because the EU is concerned with its four fundamental freedoms within its borders. It is a trading bloc, it has always been a trading bloc. The social policy stuff is around ensuring that there a broadly unified approach to controllable issues which will affect whether people, goods, capital, establishment can move with the minimum of friction (recognising that geographic and cultural barriers are a significant issue, they focus on what can be managed). Restaurant inspection is what might be termed a devolved issue.
calum, Nov 05 2018
  

       Seeing as the whole stimulus to vote brechtseit was to rebel against the interminably morose atmosphere of austerity, and seeing as horse-terity officially ended, what, about 72 hours ago or was it a bit more, then really there should be a full scale rebellion to make the will of the people known once again given the new circumstances (ie, we’re not austere any more), and forcibly refuse to leave the EEC.
Ian Tindale, Nov 05 2018
  

       // its four fundamental freedoms within its borders. //   

       Freedom for the french to have their own way on everything.   

       Freedom for the Germans to sit back and quietly analyse their two previous failures (the Schlieffen plan and Fall Gelb) so that they can eventually go for the "Third Time Lucky" option (Hint: don't fight a European land war on two fronts).   

       Freedom for politicians and bureaucrats to eat big dinners and travel everywhere First Class at everyone else's expense.   

       Freedom for the spanish to put the entire Atlantic ocean through a fine-mesh net, extract all the marine life down to diatom size, and then sell the resulting slurry as "paella".
8th of 7, Nov 05 2018
  

       ^ Yes, but what about the bad points?
not_morrison_rm, Nov 05 2018
  

       Belgium will continue to exist.
8th of 7, Nov 05 2018
  

       Apres-Brexit makes me think of a 2-1 bottle which acts as a drinkable 40% spirit or an anti-chafing lotion. Something stronger than Baileys and less sticky.
bigsleep, Nov 06 2018
  

       //Choose your own apres-Brexit status//

Ah, the great illusion! Regardless of whether you are an inny or an outey, you will still be governed by the government. Faceless bureaucrats & populist politicians will still control your lives & demand that you either give them a good chunk of your wealth every year or be sent to prison. Choice of governments is no choice at all. So there! With knobs on! :)
DrBob, Nov 06 2018
  

       Hey! I'm a bureaucrat and I'm not faceless!
hippo, Nov 06 2018
  

       // //would I get to keep my human rights// - if you're referring to the rights and obligations you have arising from the UK's membership of the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR, established under the European Convention on Human Rights (also ECHR)), then the answer is 'yes', whichever side you're on, because the ECHRs are not part of the European Union and exist under a separate legislative framework. So, despite frothing-at-the-mouth Brexit supporters ranting at these strange foreign human rights (although the UK was a principal author of the ECHR) encroaching on their ability to be nasty to others, Brexit will make no difference in this area.//   

       As an addenendum to what calum said, I have a referendum communication - a pamphlet addressed and delivered to me. It's called:
"NOT SURE WHICH WAY TO VOTE ON 23 JUNE?"
  

       On the back page there's a set of quotes, including one from Sir Richard DearLove, former Chief of MI6:
"Brexit would bring two potentially important security gains: the ability to dump the European Convention on Human Rights ... and, more importantly, greater control over immigration from the European Union."
  

       So there are several points which could be made about that, but I'll restrict myself to two:   

       1) That this guys career was in politics and spying rather than porn disproves nominative determinism to my satisfaction.
2) He may be an m.f.-er, but he's an m.f-er with significant influence in the department of being nasty to others.
Loris, Nov 06 2018
  

       You mean he's also worked in HR?
RayfordSteele, Nov 06 2018
  

       Just because someone is or has been involved in HR doesn't mean that they're automatically a petty, vicious, friendless misanthropic anally-retentive xenophobic psychopath with delusions of mediocrity.   

       Then again, a three metre long quadrupedal mammal covered in orange and black striped fur and with huge teeth and long sharp claws might not be a tiger; but the statistical evidence suggests that it probably is. The only way to be sure is to see if it tries to kill you. That will narrow the error bars quite a lot.
8th of 7, Nov 06 2018
  
      
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