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Login Button

What the...?
  (+7, -1)
(+7, -1)
  [vote for,
against]

What's with the new "Login" button? (I've been away for a while...)
It really doesn't fit with the rest of the page (and the philosophy of the halfbakery display); the old [x] was much better.
Just my opinion.
[marked-for-expiry]
neutrinos_shadow, Oct 16 2008

The Outer Limits http://en.wikipedia...ki/The_Outer_Limits
Classic [8th of 7, Oct 16 2008]

As Was http://web.archive....www.halfbakery.com/
For text size comparison. The WayBack Machine strips some links away, but you can get a rough idea of the changes. [Amos Kito, Oct 19 2008]

A guide to web typography http://ilovetypogra...-to-web-typography/
A great little article. [wagster, Oct 20 2008]

Internet Explorer Bites. http://kunarion.com...allery/IE_Bites.JPG
Angular characters in titles get chopped a little (circles added for emphasis) in Internet Explorer, using defaults. FireFox doesn't, in the same screen resolution. No big deal, but it's an example of slight differences. Apologies for the compression artifacts. [Amos Kito, Oct 25 2008]

[link]






       I hadn't noticed, but now that you point it out, I like it. The [x] was confusing when I started.
MisterQED, Oct 16 2008
  

       A user couldn't figure out how to log in. They typed their name into the field, and then just .. sat there, and nothing happened. (That's not really what you expect to be the problem when you're trying to figure out why someone can't login - it was kind of fun to track down.)   

       I did go a bit overboard with the button; I've now made it look more like the rest, but it's still got a little box around it.   

       If you know your way around a cascading style sheet, and you have a suggestion how to make this fit in better without being as hard to find as the previous instance, link to your sample version of the home page, and I'll steal your layout if I like it.   

       The old [x] was (a) a GIF image that was a desperate solution from someone who didn't know about CSS, but hated the way the standard "submit" button looked; (b) sort of worked when it had a companion [x] for the "create an account" option, but when that turned into a plain link, it stopped working, even for those where the font illusion worked out (not me). I know what I was thinking when I made it, but I find it hard to defend today.
jutta, Oct 16 2008
  

       where (login button)?   

       perhaps I need to log OUT before I can see it.
po, Oct 16 2008
  

       I never really noticed the [x], I always would just press enter.
Spacecoyote, Oct 16 2008
  

       // A user couldn't figure out how to log in. They typed their name into the field, and then just .. sat there, and nothing happened. //   

       Ummm .... if a user isn't actually capable of working out how to log in, does not that represent a highly appropriate litmus test of whether they should be a member or not ?   

       Not so much, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen", but more, "If you can't work out how to turn the doorknob, you shouldn't be in the Bakery"...
8th of 7, Oct 16 2008
  

       We don't want them newbies here! This is a local bakery! For local people!
theleopard, Oct 16 2008
  

       Has someone tried to touch the precious things of the Bakery ?
8th of 7, Oct 16 2008
  

       Whoa, you guys actually LOG OUT???????
phundug, Oct 16 2008
  

       No. We are always here. We are watching you. We are always watching you. We control your computer. Do not ajust your monitor. This is not a fault. We can control the horizontal and the vertical. We can change the colours and contrast. We can turn the sound up and down. We can turn it on, we can turn it off<CLICK>
8th of 7, Oct 16 2008
  

       //We can change the colours and contrast.//   

       Can you fix the funny rainbow bit where I left a magnet next to it overnight?
Wrongfellow, Oct 16 2008
  

       For the record, I think the OK button looks tacky. HB traditional style seems to be black underlined links for all functions.
Spacecoyote, Oct 16 2008
  

       //We can turn the sound up and down.// [marked-for-tagline], or any of the other proclaimations in that anno.
daseva, Oct 16 2008
  

       <link>
8th of 7, Oct 16 2008
  

       How about now (going with Spacecoyote) -- white background and underlined, like all the other words?   

       I don't think people who can't use a bad user interface are "idiots", and I don't like to see halfbakery users gratuitously addressed that way. Cut it out, UB - there should still be enough idiots left who deserve the epithet.
jutta, Oct 16 2008
  

       I like it, re: no background & underlined. Not that my opinion matters. Anyways, I agree with putting responsibility to the designer, but just as the impact of an artpiece depends on the state of the observer, so too the effectiveness of an interface. Maybe. Anyways, I had a job once where I was to critique website interfaces and it was fun to play idioth.   

       [eighth], great link! The intro is on youtube, too.
daseva, Oct 16 2008
  

       [jutta], that's better, although the fact that "Create a new account" is smaller and on the same line messes with my OCD tendencies. And that OK button is still weird.
Spacecoyote, Oct 18 2008
  

       Category style didn't work for me visually; we don't use it for verbs, we only use it for categories (and perhaps group headings), and this isn't one. (Let me try switching to "Register" for the "Create a new account", I guess that's the accepted short phrase.) Getting the font sizes to line up is going to be tricky; let me see what I can do there.   

       I experimented with making the "OK" button like that link, but in that context, when I have a big text area already on the screen, I do expect a box around the button - it didn't look right without.   

       Does anyone know how I can get rid of the $#@! sliver of white space in front of the word "Login" (e.g. in Firefox, on a Mac)?
jutta, Oct 18 2008
  

       everything has gone startlingly BIG.
po, Oct 18 2008
  

       Not for me, it hasn't. Can you be more specific?
(Maybe a screen shot would help.)
jutta, Oct 18 2008
  

       //everything has gone startlingly BIG.// - and some has gone spider sized - like the 6 point type in this annotation box before you hit "ok". Jumbo type on left hand side of screen now too or did I park the left lens of my glasses on a radiator?
xenzag, Oct 18 2008
  

       The main body text has gone big (12-14pt at a guess, but bigger) on both FF and IE on this pc. Top left menus too, but not the top right categories.   

       I am one of those people studying design who holds to the slightly old-fashioned view that the primary function of graphic design is to convey information. I keep pointing people at this site as a brilliant example of good design, but they don't get it because it doesn't have colours and reflections and shiny Web2.0 buttons.
wagster, Oct 18 2008
  

       I am one of those people who have been studying these pages since 2001   

       :)   

       wagster is quite right!
po, Oct 18 2008
  

       [wags], I hear ya.   

       (aside) I like the smaller OK button now. (although "submit" would probably be a better caption)
Spacecoyote, Oct 18 2008
  

       (OK, got some screenshots now. It'll be a little bit before I can address this, but thanks - now I have something to go by!)
jutta, Oct 18 2008
  

       Sp: address   

       <dives for cover>
8th of 7, Oct 18 2008
  

       <bang>
po, Oct 18 2008
  

       Not sure it really needs addressing, Jutta. For some of us (and I especially mean those of us over 50 with terminal squint) the newer, larger font size is a refreshing pleasure to read! When I thought that it was just on my monitor I had decided to leave the larger print size.
jurist, Oct 18 2008
  

       I saw the big "LOGIN" a few days ago when i was using HotJava out of frustration on an old and very crashy PC, and i thought it was something to do with that browser.
It looks OK to me now, though i hardy ever see it.
nineteenthly, Oct 18 2008
  

       but [jurist] my over 50 arthritic scrolling finger is beginning to complain.
po, Oct 18 2008
  

       OK, right now we have medium=16px (the idea text), small=16px (the annotations and menu items - used to be smaller, but I'm getting older, too), very small=12px (the subtitle underneath "halfbakery"). This was the same way it was when people started complaining about the "big" font, but the screen shots I've gotten actually don't look any different from what I'm seeing and like.   

       I'm talking to a few other people with web design clue about the details, and things might still change. Stay tuned.
jutta, Oct 18 2008
  

       [jutta] - thanks for all of it. Whatever makes it less stressful for you to take care of, I'm a vote you can count on.   

       Assuming, of course, you don't turn the whole thing Flash or require IE to view the site...
lurch, Oct 19 2008
  

       If you want the font bigger just press CTRL++, don't go changing the website.
Spacecoyote, Oct 19 2008
  

       Well, but don't change your settings until you're done helping the web designer get her shit together, either...   

       We're now at 12pt and 10pt fonts. The difference is specification in terms of geometrical size, not pixel size, which might help people with low-res setups that previously were complaining about too large fonts. To me, it still looks the same as before.   

       Po, does this do anything for you?
jutta, Oct 19 2008
  

       I'm not a great judge at font sizes (I usually work in trebuchet MS at work: pt 11) so to me, the top right list looks more like an 8pt and the text under the plate and the idea title looks much like it always did but the add, search, annotate buttons on the left and the general text looks much bigger than before although the emboldened *idea*, *meta* & *account* titles look the same.   

       I'm trying to remember if the description below the title was larger than the text of the idea...   

       I'm sure we'd all get used to it soon or later...
po, Oct 19 2008
  

       hey [space] thanks for the ctl+ / - , that a useful shortcut! ctl - makes it look quite normal again!
po, Oct 19 2008
  

       What [po] just said: it's CTL-- for me.   

       I must say, I don't like the new look much. The large text makes it feel a bit like reading a kid's book to me, plus it makes it look like there's more to wade through than there actually is. Try reading a [vernon] post in this font size...   

       Text size often indicates what is important on a page and guides the eye to it, so if you must upsize it anywhere I would just do it on the body of the idea itself. Or leave it all small. Just my 2 cents.   

       "We fear change!"
wagster, Oct 19 2008
  

       I'm with wagster on this - Jumbo type never did it for me. All was perfect "before". Pleeeeeassssse can we have it back the way it was?
xenzag, Oct 19 2008
  

       The text size was another thing i thought was just the weird browser rendering. This is Seamonkey now and it looks OK, though quite oddly big. It's what you get used to. In fact i prefer it this way because i can actually read it without my glasses.
nineteenthly, Oct 19 2008
  

       Why is every body shouting? I heard you fine before.
4whom, Oct 19 2008
  

       My only problem is when I "Crtl -" .The mouse overs don't correspond to the pointer. The work-around is look at the address at the bottom of the screen on mouse over.   

       Nothing about the changes bothers me at all. I subscribe to the "monkey in silk, is a monkey no less" philosophy. To truly believe this I must accept: " A king in raw flax, is a king no less". I do.
4whom, Oct 19 2008
  

       The font size changed? That's good then, I just thought that Chrome was making everything enormous for me. I preferred the smaller font, it made the site seem professional and Halfbakery-ish.   

       Oh well, it's just font. If it helps people, I'm for it.
Shadow Phoenix, Oct 19 2008
  

       Ah, that means that font size=3 was 12pt for you; it must have been 14pt for me. I've now set the subtitle size to 14pt, and removed the size=3. Any different?
jutta, Oct 20 2008
  

       Yes, the "These comments have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug administration" tagline is now as big as the logo! But, it's still smaller than the body text.   

       I'm liking the new ok button, though.
wagster, Oct 20 2008
  

       I'd join in with this, but I normally access the site (during the day anyway) via the /lr interface (which has remained very much the same, so far) I did take a brief peek, and it all looks a teeny bit more Jack and Jill now - which isn't necessarily a bad thing.   

       I like the style of the bakery so much, I adopted Trebuchet and Impact for my CV (headings in Silver and Gold (Grey and Brown, really) having been previously altogether more of a Times New Roman and Century Gothic kind of guy) - never looked back.
zen_tom, Oct 20 2008
  

       Did you adopt a halfbakery style for the content too?   

       2004-2007: Dwarf Juggler
wagster, Oct 20 2008
  

       1996 - 2000: Mime
During my role as Mime, I was responsible for pulling on a very heaving rope and walking against a powerful wind. In addition to these duties, I also gained a great deal of experience of being stuck in a glass box.
  

       2000 - 2003: Scientist(evil)
Busy role, running an evil laboratory and managing a small team of minions. Highlights included meddling with forces of nature I didn't fully understand, and being destroyed by my own creations (various).
  

       2003 - 2005: Hobo
  

       2005 - Present: Trainee Custard Analyst
This rewarding position provides me with the opportunity to work within a team of professionals, providing problem focused solutions within the Custard space etc.
zen_tom, Oct 20 2008
  

       I've been on several different computers since the login button has changed, and it has looked different on all of them!! It's OK by me.
xandram, Oct 20 2008
  

       Is something weird going on with the font today? When I open an idea, the font is like 3 sizes larger than normal, and View | Text Size does nothing. Thanks very much.
phundug, Oct 20 2008
  

       But View | Text size used to affect the annotation text and now it doesn't.
phundug, Oct 20 2008
  

       TOO SHOUTY!
AbsintheWithoutLeave, Oct 20 2008
  

       OK, so some browsers *do* respect point sizes, then? I was hoping they'd all just be relative to whatever you tell it to do, the way Firefox does it. Alrighty then.   

       Next time I have time to mess with fonts, I'll try switching to 1em for the default font (so you can actually set it correctly in your browser), but it'll be complicated, since that makes it sensitive to hierarchically inherited fonts, and my hierarchies are a bit warped. It'll be possible to clean that up, but it'll probably break the site some of the time.
jutta, Oct 20 2008
  

       Hmm - still looks uncomfortably big to me both at home (Firefox 3, Mac OS) and at work ("lr" mode, IE, XP)...
hippo, Oct 20 2008
  

       I thought my eyes had shrunk...
lostdog, Oct 20 2008
  

       It's his own fault, the label clearly says, "hand wash only".   

       For heaven's sake, a talking label is surely unusual enough to deserve being taken notice of ?
8th of 7, Oct 20 2008
  

       why are people voting on this for gawd's sake   

       :)
po, Oct 20 2008
  

       (From Flock this time, which looks the same as Firefox) - It makes sense to vote on it because [Jutta] wants to know if people like it this way.
Incidentally, this is a fifteen inch monitor at XGA resolution, which might explain why it doesn't look too big to me.
nineteenthly, Oct 20 2008
  

       19 - this started as a login issue and now a font thang - voting is daft!
po, Oct 20 2008
  

       // because [Jutta] wants to know
I did not ask for votes on this and don't react to them.
  

       This is an ongoing process with many false starts and changes. Asking for suggestions was good; putting that kind of thing to a persistent vote would be pointless. Additionally, technical malfunctions are not subject to majority rule - if it's broken, it's broken. (And yes, it's broken right now; I just don't have the time yet to fix it.)
jutta, Oct 20 2008
  

       // putting that kind of thing to a persistent vote would be stupid //   

       Kind of puts the Obama/McCain thing in context ?
8th of 7, Oct 20 2008
  

       Obama is SO sexy? oops..
po, Oct 20 2008
  

       OK, there's still lots of stuff broken, but I'm tired for tonight; hope you can live with the results until the next free couple of hours.
jutta, Oct 21 2008
  

       Sweet dreams!

In this high tec office we're using IE 6.0.28 etc.

I'm getting the larger font for annos (which is OK by me) but the top of the page is looking a bit weird. The annos now start below the idea text and the links and there is just a big, white space on the right hand side. The font for the main text of the idea is smaller than for the links and annos.

Changing the browser settings to smaller or larger font only seems to affect the idea text and the link titles. Doesn't make the blindest bit of difference to the annos.

Login button? Hadn't really noticed it myself. I normally just hit 'Return'.

I like your new idea for interactive web design though, jutta. Good luck with that!
DrBob, Oct 21 2008
  

       Hm, interactive! Haven't thought of it this way, but that *is* an interesting idea.
OK, another hour of things crashing / changing size coming up...
jutta, Oct 21 2008
  

       I like seeing it in different ways every day! It's an adventure. [jutta] Thanks for all the work you're doing.
xandram, Oct 21 2008
  

       Thanks! And thanks to everybody who's sent me unsolicited updates on what the site looks like for them - it's amazing how one document can be broken in so many different ways. Done for this morning. More in about 12 hours...
jutta, Oct 21 2008
  

       Looking good - I like the OK button below the annotation box. The annotation text is still slightly big - also a minor point, but is it deliberate that the link to an idea author below an idea's text is not underlined?
hippo, Oct 21 2008
  

       Hm! No it isn't. Lemme fix that.
Known bugs:
Inconsistent menu item sizes on some browsers
Annotation textarea text is larger than it should be.
Anything having to do with annotations and links.
jutta, Oct 21 2008
  

       I need to take a screenshot of this page - the h goes off a'wandering leaving us as the alfbakery. funny but that doesn't happen when I'm in the annotation mode (like right now).
po, Oct 21 2008
  

       //the h goes off a'wandering leaving us as the alfbakery// We told you - it was invented by someone French!
gnomethang, Oct 21 2008
  

       Just a thought, Jutta, I have seen that the default font that our browser is using will only change the annotation text but not the idea text. I am looking in Google Chrome and Firefox at the mo - Safari will do the same I guess but have not tried IE7 yet.
Appreciate the effort,
gnomety
gnomethang, Oct 21 2008
  

       I do hope that [jutta] is not getting too stressed over this. I for one am quite content with even more quirkier pages.
po, Oct 21 2008
  

       Agreed absolutely!. Having gone round my 3 favourite browsers and refreshed I cant see a major problem for me the user.
I have them pretty much back to normal by standardising my fonts in Browser Options (to the best of my ability). If, however, it is a professional thing then I am sure that Jutta will want to fix it for its own sake.
gnomethang, Oct 21 2008
  

       Wow - that was a fun read (cheap thrills).   

       Obscure Sandra Chalke quote "I like the new Ginger".   

       I think we're all voting for the simple pleasure of it. At least, I think that describes the upcoming USA elections.
normzone, Oct 21 2008
  

       I am a Mac user and on most login screens when I first login I get a dialogue box inviting me to save the password so that next time I can just press enter to login. I don't get that with here.   

       I like that approach but I'm not anal about it, I can always shorten my password.   

       I really like your approach to annotating and editing and deleting annotations you're had second thoughts about. It saves allot of embarrassment if you logon drunk, I mean, sleepy the way I do sometimes.
theGem, Oct 21 2008
  

       Nice.
gnomethang, Oct 21 2008
  

       // It saves allot of embarrassment //   

       Be careful. You can change your postings on public version of the HB but we are positive that She Who Must Be Obeyed can look at your "previous" versions .....
8th of 7, Oct 21 2008
  

       The save the password thingy did it's thingy. So either you did something pretty quick and if so thank you, or I'm a klutz and I missed it the first time. In fact lets just leave it that you really respond quickly.   

       //She Who Must Be Obeyed can look at your "previous" versions .....// So [8th] anybody that responds that quickly can read my pass posts anytime.
theGem, Oct 21 2008
  

       I didn't know Oprah Winfrey was a moderator.
Spacecoyote, Oct 21 2008
  

       Update -- still broken: Input field font sizes; various view aspects; search results. Hold the screen shots for now; thanks.
jutta, Oct 22 2008
  

       I just noticed I can't edit my annotations - apologies if this is already on your list.
hippo, Oct 22 2008
  

       I can edit mine, [hippo]. Nya-nya-ny-nya-nya!   

       <blows raspberry>
wagster, Oct 22 2008
  

       I can edit mine too. It must just be you.
nineteenthly, Oct 22 2008
  

       Ah, OK - I can't edit them in "lr" mode
hippo, Oct 22 2008
  

       Me neither(lr) - I'm sure I used to be able to, in fact I distinctly remember correcting some of my punctuation only yesterday.
zen_tom, Oct 22 2008
  

       Is that an ironic apostrophe?
hippo, Oct 22 2008
  

       It's a policy decision on my part to declare all of my spelling and grammar mistakes as ironic - this particular one will have to remain until such time as I'm able to edit it out again (in lr mode anyway)
zen_tom, Oct 22 2008
  

       Ooh, just had a look at my profile page. The logo and menu selections are all down in the bottom left-hand corner now instead of top left. Do you think that they're hiding down there deliberately?
DrBob, Oct 22 2008
  

       Maybe they've just worked loose, [DrBob]. Try turning your monitor upside down and see if they move back.   

       If you get the well-known "snow-globe" effect where all the letters settle at the top (bottom) of the screen, you may have a hardware fault - either that, or your computer has been posessed by an Evil Spirit. It's kind of hard to tell the difference sometimes .....
8th of 7, Oct 22 2008
  

       OK, sorry about that lo-res edit button, should be back now.
jutta, Oct 22 2008
  

       My chosen default "recent" view shows ideas with votes and names. The combination of big & little text is quite stylish. If this may be the new "look", it's fine with me.
Amos Kito, Oct 23 2008
  

       Oh yes, low-res edit works just fine - thanks.
zen_tom, Oct 23 2008
  

       So, I've been waiting to ask, but are the annos all supposed to be beneathe the idea? That is how my view is. At first I thought there were no annos until I scrolled down...
xandram, Oct 25 2008
  

       No, they're supposed to flow around it to the top of the page, given enough screen real estate. (In the normal view. They do start below the idea in the lo-res view.) What browser are you using?
jutta, Oct 25 2008
  

       I don't know if this is intentional, but when i look at user pages, the list of ideas is above the user's own text rather than beside it. In [UnaBubba]'s case, it makes the page very long indeed. I don't think this is a bad thing but i do wonder if it's what you want.
nineteenthly, Oct 25 2008
  

       Everything's fine in Firefox 3.0 (latest release with patches), and Opera 9.6, but IE6 doesn't do the text flow thing in high or low res (Version 6.0.2800.1106). IE7 works OK most of the tim, but still has its moments. (This is under Win2k and XP) We will check IE8 shortly, but really, if it's OK in Firefox, it's Ok with us. It's also sound under SuSE Linux 6.3 and derivatives.   

       (screen res is 2048 x 1536, maximised.)
8th of 7, Oct 25 2008
  

       *Which* IE8 beta? (Generally, it's a good idea to tell me which browser you're describing - I'm confident it's not just *you* :-)
Is it still broken now?
jutta, Oct 25 2008
  

       In IE 7.0.6001.18000, it's working now (text flow's similar to FireFox). Wasn't doing that earlier today. Looks great!   

       Internet Explorer takes tiny nibbles out of some letters (see [Link] to compare this effect). But IE is a ravenous beast.
Amos Kito, Oct 25 2008
  

       Fixed now for me, having experienced the other problems. Running IE 7.0.5730.11.
4whom, Oct 25 2008
  

       for me, this is now perfect!
po, Oct 25 2008
  

       Looks lovely in Firefox 3.03 (Mac) - the annotations flow round the idea text too in non-lr mode. Just one odd thing - when you press the "annotate" button, focus passes to the annotation box, but the browser doesn't scroll the page up so you can see it. Might be a browser glitch.
hippo, Oct 25 2008
  

       Swurkeen! Thanks!!!!
phundug, Oct 25 2008
  

       It is good. Everything is right with the world.
Spacecoyote, Oct 26 2008
  

       All appears to be ok now with my Mac and Safari.
xenzag, Oct 26 2008
  

       Looks OK from the most recent version of K-Meleon on Windows ME on the crappy crappy bedroom computer using UGA.
nineteenthly, Oct 26 2008
  

       FF under Vista. All lovely.   

       Now there's no more niggling annoyances that might make me think of logging out and going to do something more contructive.   

       Thanks [jutta]!
wagster, Oct 26 2008
  

       I seem to have a new item under idea called "contested" which disappears when I'm in the annotate box mode.
po, Oct 26 2008
  

       More accurately, all your (and everybody else's) user-defined views vanished from the menu while they add or edit a note or link. Nice catch, thanks!
jutta, Oct 26 2008
  

       Well spotted - I thought there was something funny going on in that menu, but I couldn't work out what it was.
wagster, Oct 26 2008
  

       <curtsey>
po, Oct 26 2008
  

       sorry I took so long to get back_ all is well with Internet Explorer now...just like it used to be, only better I'm sure! thx
xandram, Oct 27 2008
  
      
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