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Workable Coronavirus vaccine.

So simple
  (+5, -2)
(+5, -2)
  [vote for,
against]

Isolate the live virus and propagate it.

Inject it into all individuals under 60 who aren't high risk. Tell them "You may feel off for a few days, but just carry on".

60% will have no symptoms; 30% will feel a bit off; 9% will feel really ill.

A few will die, but that happens with many existing vaccines.

In a short time, most of the population will have some immunity and the outbreak will end.

8th of 7, Mar 24 2020

Virus Parties https://www.nytimes...ralist-twitter.html
I couldn’t make this stuff up. [Chairborne Hero, Mar 26 2020]

[link]






       Uhhh. But there examples of deaths of young people as well. Wondering, what are the risk factors. If we can indeed isolate the risk factors, and hedge against them with very high confidence, that could be an option.
Mindey, Mar 24 2020
  

       Yes, it's the "cytokine storm" phenomenon. It's an immune system overreaction, and can be successfuly treated with steroids if caught early. It's what caused the deaths in the 1918 H1N1 flu outbreak.   

       There may be genetic risk factors but since immune response is heuristic it's almost impossible to identify those at risk.   

       These individuals will eventually contract Covid19 anyway, it's inescapable. At least this way the medics know who and when, giving them a better chance of going in for the kill.
8th of 7, Mar 24 2020
  

       But, in China they had (at high economic costs anyway) (seemingly) prevented the epidemic. So, question is then about estimation the cost- benefit of this course of action.
Mindey, Mar 24 2020
  

       They've slowed the spread of the virus, is all. That's useful, but in the end everyone will get it. Most who do will never know.
8th of 7, Mar 24 2020
  

       It depends on how much these means reduce the R0. Reduce the R0 below 1, and it's never going to spread widely (and die off very quickly). The R0 can be controlled and attacked by simply counting -- i.e., where the points of forking happen, by estimating the numbers of contacts per location/transaction, and taking dis-infection actions at those points.   

       And, obviously, we'll all be much more happy to take weakened vaccines ;)
Mindey, Mar 24 2020
  

       That is entirely correct, and if it were a Restonvirus (Marburg, Ebola) the game would be worth the candle. It's not. It's not pneumonic Plague or Anthrax. It's a pissy little Coronavirus that does no lasting harm to 99%+ of cases ...
8th of 7, Mar 24 2020
  

       If this is voluntary what's the downside? People volunteer to go into the military for the good of their people, a very dangerous operation.   

       I don't understand why we don't have a weakened virus that would establish antibodies without the sickness but I don't know squat about vaccines.   

       My cousin owns a company that makes vaccines, he's basically Jonas Salk only alive. I'll ask him.
doctorremulac3, Mar 24 2020
  

       // It's not pneumonic Plague or Anthrax. It's a pissy little Coronavirus that does no lasting harm to 99%+ of cases ...   

       So, maybe, just maybe... it highly depends on the pathway, that the virus infects through? For example, if we infect via a toe, or pinkie of the foot, it would take sufficiently long time to get to the lungs, long enough for the organism to have had develop reasonable defenses?
Mindey, Mar 24 2020
  

       // don't understand why we don't have a weakened virus that would establish antibodies without the sickness //   

       That's how existing vaccines work. Don't have one for SARS- COV2 yet because there hasn't been time to sequence and test one.   

       8th's contention is there's no need as this is a *mostly* harmless bug that everyone is going to get eventually - but BorgCo will be happy to collect for injecting people anyhow. If that's the case they might as well sell a homeopathic vaccine - a syringe filed with water that has been near some virus of some kind at some time - and just sort of wave it near your arm or buttocks after collecting the fee.
Chairborne Hero, Mar 24 2020
  

       You bastard. You utter, utter bastard. OK, how much to delete that anno and keep quiet ?   

       Another money-making scheme crippled before it gets anywhere ....   

       // because there hasn't been time to sequence and test one //   

       But that will only work against this specific strain. These little buggers mutate spontaneously, all the time, just like influenza and colds. You can make a vaccine and it will indeed protect everyone, and the next variant that comes along will go straight through it like a 30mm H.E. cannon shell through an oil drum filled with hydraulic fluid (we have a video and it's AWESOME).   

       These species were extensively investigated by the military of major powers between 1918 and 1960 and discarded because (i) it's impossible to create a vaccine (necessary to protect your own population), (ii) there's no prophylactic treatment, and most importantly (iii) they don't make people ill enough for long enough to be useful.   

       They're useful as a bioweapon simulant, nothing more.   

       // it highly depends on the pathway //   

       No, not at all.
8th of 7, Mar 24 2020
  

       It's not online, and we're not going to post it.
8th of 7, Mar 24 2020
  

       // You bastard. You utter, utter bastard //   

       A meme with which I was previously unfamiliar. Thanks!   

       Your point about antigen drift and shift is only partially true. It makes the annual flu jab necessary (because you need to be fairly close to the current strain to do any good) but even a near-miss often confers some resistance, lessens symptoms.   

       As for whether or not it's worthwhile to work on a vaccine for SARS-COV2, I don't have enough data. But I note your opinion puts you in the same exalted company as Boris Johnson and Donald Trump on this one - the latter only changing his tune lately for political expediency.
Chairborne Hero, Mar 24 2020
  

       // in the same exalted company as Boris Johnson and the Americanss Rush Limbaugh and Donald Trump //   

       Ooooh ... we are now A Trifle Miffed.   

       Trading banter is one thing, but that's uncalled-for.
8th of 7, Mar 24 2020
  

       //It's not online, and we're not going to post it//   

       Post it or so help me I'll let loose gray goo in your implant factory
Voice, Mar 24 2020
  

       // that was uncalled for //   

       If nobody calls for it in thirty days, it's yours.   

       Yes I admit it was a low blow, even for HB. But it's hard to sort people's stated opinions from their motivations. *I* know you're just an old softie, but you would find me treating you as one - in front of our studio audience - even MORE offensive. Wouldn't you?
Chairborne Hero, Mar 24 2020
  

       Well, yes, but for the gods sake, Limbaugh ? The Don is a Top Bloke, Boris is (very) light entertainment ... but not the other one you mentioned ...   

       [Voice], we always happy to receive gifts of out-of-control nanotechnology, thankyou. Tangy !   

       If it ever gets declassified, we'll post it.
8th of 7, Mar 24 2020
  

       // Rush L. //   

       Fair enough, that was the only part I felt bad about posting. I had even deleted it right afterwards but you got your miffed reply out apparently at the same time I was editing.   

       Damn this sub-light network. Broadband my ass.
Chairborne Hero, Mar 24 2020
  

       // Broadband my ass //   

       Certainly. Copper, fibre optic, phase-modulated ionizing radiation, quantum-entangled particles ? We offer many attractive options and payment plans, although it's always extra if you want Premium Sport or Movies bundles.   

       Though be aware that we sub-contract all that dirty, demeaning stuff to someone else. [xenzag] will be round to do your installation as soon as lockdown ends. Be ready to grab your ankles.
8th of 7, Mar 24 2020
  

       A fine retort in Crunchbird fashion, kudos!
Chairborne Hero, Mar 25 2020
  

       This idea falls in to the "it's so crazy it just might work!".
If you have 1,000 hospital beds (in a region) available for patients, and recovery takes ~2 weeks, you deliberately infect 5,000 per week. Your 900 seriously ill can go to hospital (100 spare for people who catch it "early"). Rather than waiting for people to catch it (with the expected early exponential growth), the progression is a known thing. Brilliant!
So, who are you, and what have you done with the real [8th of 7]?
neutrinos_shadow, Mar 25 2020
  

       Back in the day they would use the plasma from folk who had already contracted and recovered from the latest Johnny-come-lately pathogen as a source of antibodies. They could do that here also, probably with better results, given the larger amount of blood and pathogen knowledge we have acquired since.   

       The problem with your little plan is that some people catch it and have little effect—some people catch it and have scarred lung tissue for life—and some people catch it and die.
RayfordSteele, Mar 25 2020
  

       Rayford, I just saw an article today that said the FDA has just greenlighted that technique here in the States.
21 Quest, Mar 25 2020
  

       // The problem with your little plan //   

       But they'll catch it anyway in the end. This way, you get the money out of the HMO- or at least get to invoice them- in a predictable fashion; and the patients in the last two categories are a very small proportion of the total.
8th of 7, Mar 25 2020
  

       You could also announce that upon statistical review, covid19 is actually not as bad as most flu seasons and people should just die at home quietly rather than occupy hospital beds and overwhelm health services.   

       Normally deaths over a year follow a sinusoidal pattern except the odd ragged peaks when flu outbreaks occur accounting for ~40% more deaths. Seeing these peaks above a regular curve its easy to attribute to a separate cause of death i.e. flu.   

       With China on the mend and out of isolation with less than a sniffle in terms of annual flu casualties, it's only going to be a few weeks before we see a second wave or nothing at all. If we don't trust those figures, then South Korea weren't far behind creating a lockdown toward the end of February.
bigsleep, Mar 25 2020
  

       Or "Tears in rain" ?   

       // the type who eats all 8 pizza slices before anyone else can get one. //   

       You couldn't be more wrong; we always, always share (with ourselves).
8th of 7, Mar 25 2020
  

       Coronavirus parties (link) - more fun than a jab in the buttocks.
Chairborne Hero, Mar 26 2020
  

       No, it isn't. Go round to [xen]'s place and pay your USD $200. You'll be surprised ...   

       "Sophisticated Entertainment for Discerning Gentlemen", you know.
8th of 7, Mar 26 2020
  

       Nothing gets by you, 8th. The first draft said "a little prick" rather than a "jab."
Chairborne Hero, Mar 26 2020
  

       She has "equipment" in a range of sizes, according to preference.   

       No, nothing gets past us. Nothing. We are watching you. We watch you all, constantly. Whenever you catch a momentary flash of red in the corner of your eye, that's one of our brow-mounted laser pointers. Resistance is Futile ...
8th of 7, Mar 26 2020
  

       Clearly the borg are rather bored stalkers.
RayfordSteele, Mar 26 2020
  

       As [8th] has already pointed out elsewhere, the virus mutates very quickly. One country acquired thousands of test kits from China and found that they suddenly "Don't work". People are also getting reinfected. Maybe it's because the virus mutated, maybe it isn't.
4and20, Mar 27 2020
  

       It's mutation. These RNAviruses are very fragile and have no error correction. A 1-bit replication error in a single organism is very common and can instantly spawn a new strain if that damage only affects the antigen configuration. Other errors kill it.   

       Perhaps [MB] could .... oh.   

       <Stops suddenly/>   

       <Stares wistfully into distance/>   

       <Quietly wanders away to mope/>
8th of 7, Mar 27 2020
  

       ^ yeah, I had that early this morning, wondering if testing could be done binary-tree fashion.   

       It's like having had an arm lopped off, or the last step that isn't there.   

       Commiseration.
FlyingToaster, Mar 27 2020
  

       // It's like having had an arm lopped off //   

       No, it's not. Arms can, to varying extents, be replaced.   

       [Max] is irreplaceable.
8th of 7, Mar 27 2020
  

       "8th, you only surprise me with occasional lapses into decent humanity." -Me, Mar 22 2020
Chairborne Hero, Mar 27 2020
  

       //in the end everyone will get it//   

       For our purposes & for all practical purposes, yes.   

       But, being pointlessly pedantic, there are amazon tribes & a few other 'lost' tribes scattered around the globe that won't.
Skewed, Mar 27 2020
  

       They will get "a" coronavirus. By the time it propagates that far, it will have mutated so far from the current strain that it may not be clearly identifiable. The lower population density will greatly slow transmission, but other biological reservoirs (Bats are notable as carriers of Ebola) with greater mobility will mean "it" gets everywhere in the end.   

       // "8th, you only surprise me with occasional lapses into decent humanity." //   

       [CH], we wish to point out that "[Max] is irreplaceable" is a simple statement of fact, devoid of any emotional content.   

       <Sniffle, choked sob/>   

       <Reaches for new pack of tissues/>
8th of 7, Mar 27 2020
  

       //Isolate the live virus and propagate it.
Inject it into all individuals under 60 who aren't high risk. Tell them "You may feel off for a few days, but just carry on".//
  

       Congratulations, you've just invented variolation - an outdated practice used since at least the fifteenth century.
Loris, Mar 28 2020
  

       No, no, this is something totally new and different, which is why it's possible to charge so much money for it.
8th of 7, Mar 28 2020
  

       //variolation//   

       Thank you, [Loris]; I hadn't heard of that. Also, the account of it in Wikipedia is darkly amusing.
pertinax, Mar 28 2020
  

       It is, isn't it ? But it's not the same as our idea ... no weakened, inactivated or dead viruses here, no, you get the Real Deal ...   

       BorgCo COVID-19 vaccine ! Ask for it by name, wherever you see people coughing and looking miserable....
8th of 7, Mar 28 2020
  
      
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