h a l f b a k e r y"It would work, if you can find alternatives to each of the steps involved in this process."
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Now this is difficult to write about in english because I don't know the names of the parts of this machine. Then again, you might not know them either. So here goes.
I think it would be a good idea to make a planer thicknesser combination machine with a fixed table, a fixed top. This top is made
of aluminium and has a slit in the middle where the blades protrude about one millimeter. The left side of the top is also one millimeter higher then the right side.
This means you can not adjust the height/depth with which the blades plane your wood. This does not matter much because it is usually unwise to take off much more then a millimeter and you allmost never have to take off less then a millimeter, because then you are thicknessing and you can do that in the normal way underneath the removeable top.
When you are thicknessing there is an extra safety plate installed where the right side of the top was.
This is meant for those planers/thicknessers that you use at home, the smaller models.
The problem I am solving is this:
Normally it is possible to adjust both the left and the right side of the table. (some think only the right side can be adjusted). The left side of the table has to be perfectly aligned with the blades. Preferably one tenth of a millimeter lower then the knives, blades or chisels, whatever they are called. This is only ever a problem when you change the chisels and you then align the chisels with the table, not vice versa. Basically you don't want to mess with the left side of the table. Replacing the chisels and realigning them is difficult.
The right side of the table has to be in exactly 180 degrees with the left side. They are in the same plane, they form a line. But this has to be perfect.
With these smaller machines you remove the left part of the table for thicknessing... And then you put it back and it is never perfect. The right side of the table which can be moved up and down by five or six millimeters slides in rails that are not perfect either and so it does not stay perfectly aligned the whole time. When the table tops are fixed and one, your planer thicknesser is allways perfectly aligned.
Example
http://www.kruis.nl/artikelen/717051.html
I have the older model but basically the same machine. [zeno, Mar 12 2007]
(?) This is my Thickness Planer
http://www.deltamac...ex.asp?e=136&p=5853
[jhomrighaus, Mar 12 2007]
(?) This is my Jointer.
http://www.deltamac...dex.asp?e=136&p=942
[jhomrighaus, Mar 12 2007]
combo planer jointer
http://homepage3.ni...anabekikai/2031.jpg
[nuclear hobo, Mar 12 2007]
also available in the US
http://www.amazon.c...inter/dp/B0000223K2
[nuclear hobo, Mar 12 2007]
[link]
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I think you are talking about a jointer. A thickness planer, at least most I have seen has the blade carriage and head mounted in an adjustable module above the table. The jointer is a planer but you do not remove the table for planing as jointing and planing are the same operation its just a mater of your goal for the process. You need the adjustablity to allow for adjustments in the size of the cut, very light cuts for jointing on expensive pieces of wood(the lighter the cut the better the surface as well) or on harder pieces. The back or left table does not move the front or right table will always need to slide in relation to the other table. Better quality machines will maintain alignment better.(duh) Also adjustability is far more critical on the small machines due to the reduced power available the cut depth needs to be adjusted to the material being cut. |
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There are also tools available to simplify the installation of new cutters. |
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I guess I just don't understand how your machine could do what it needs to do based on what you are trying to change. |
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There are industrial machines that are used to shape wood that have fixed tables. |
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I understand now what you are trying to do. I can see that design being problematic at best. Having never seen one before i cant say how much better you modification might be. See link for the type of machines I was talking about. |
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Ok, are you talking about a planer, or a jointer? |
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A jointer has a table with the blades popping up out of a split in the center, the infeed table is a bit lower than the knives and outfeed table. You run the rough lumber over the jointer and it shaves a bit off the bottom side leaving a smooth flat surface. |
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A planer has a flat table with the cutting head set an adjustable distance above that table. The lumber is slid, along the table and the planer trims a bit off of the top, leaving a smooth surface that is a precise distance from the bottom table. |
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But a planer does not flatten the surface, if you put a twisted or curved piece of lumber into it, you will get a twisted piece out that is the specified thickness. |
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Contrawise a jointer does flatten, but does not regularize the thickness of the stock. |
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In normal use you would use the jointer to flatten one surface of the lumber, then use the planer to shave it down to the required thickness. Then use a table saw to square up the edges and finally joint them to make them flat and smooth. |
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check the link he has an unusual combo machine. I think separate machines is still the best solution. I think your Idea would work Zeno but it may be overly restrictive in day to day usage. |
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Right I mean a jointer in combination with a thickness planer. The small jointer in your link would not have the same problem it is very sturdy Without the planer section built in. Although the cheaper ones might also benefit from this idea. |
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Do you really adjust the depth of cut so often? I say one millimeter is not too much for hard wood and anything less is not needed. Unless you want to work on very wide pieces of wood, very big surface, then yes but for that I recommend a bigger machine anyway. |
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Normal use of jointer and thicknesser in the Netherlands: First flatten one side on the jointer. THEN FLATTEN THE SIDE in ninety degrees with the first flat side. Then put through planer with first side number two down then again with side number one down. NOWAY you should ever use a table saw in the entire process. This is really not done and can make people angry when you use their equipment. |
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The woodwhisperer on you tube however demostrates your method [Galbinus Ceali]. I think it is an american method, you guys do lots of thing different in woodworking. |
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And is my combo machine really unusual? |
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Baked (see link). The Japanese have been doing this for decades, and this type of machine is available in the US. Rather than cutting on top and bottom of the head, they use single spindle long head and put the jointer with a fully adjustable bed next to the planer. |
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Squaring on the jointer is also possible, but it means that you have to have a square fence on it. I know most jointers have this, but some, especially older ones, just have a guide that might not be a machined square fence. |
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You are going to need to use the table saw at some point, as neither the jointer nor the planer can make the edges parallel. |
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Now I must admit that I own neither a planer nor a jointer so end up doing both tasks with the table saw. (It is possible, but it is less accurate and more work. Someday I will buy these other large pieces of equipment.) |
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The only thing I can think is that the wood available in the US may be a bit larger in width than what you may normally see in the Netherlands, such that many pieces(at least pieces your average woodworker may be using) may be too wide to stand on end through the thickness planer. The table saw method gives you parallel faces on the narrow face of the panel. |
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Do you have a lot of old growth wide bole timber available there or does it tend more towards the Ikea type 3 to 4 inch knotty pine type material? |
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We can typically purchase at a lumber yard boards in 1.5 thick by 11.5 inch wide pine or spruce. Most of the hardwoods are readily available in widths up to 6 inches. I have a piece of southern Yellow pine in my pile that is 21 inches wide, 2 inches thick and about 12 feet long and it has 1 half inch knot in the whole surface. |
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A planer will give you a parallel face but you are limited as to how stable the piece is on the bed. |
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I have lumberyards that can get just about anything, up to 18" wide, and six inches thick But larger stuff is more expensive. Right now I am working a lot with some reclaimed old growth yellow pine. Beams 6" by 2.5". They came out of my house during a remodel. |
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Actually at the moment I am using a lot of MDF because I am making painted pieces. |
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Are you in the US Galbinus? I was thinking you were(in which case I know what you can get). |
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I was wondering what [zeno] could get. |
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Yeah, I live under the Iron Fist of Tsar Cheney. And I live in (well, next to) a large city so I can purchase just about anything I want. |
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Just yesterday I read about woodshops in germany that generally have a lot of choice in pieces of wood especially good for turning. Those are hard to come by in the netherlands. All wood is imported. We have no forests to speak of. Sometimes you can get dutch wood when trees are cut to make way for buildings or roads. This is usually oak of poor quality. Because trees that did not grow in a forest develop differently because they are more exposed to the wind and sunshine and rain. They are often beautifull trees but the woood is not that good. Further there is some apple or pear wood, all small pieces for the lathe. Some ash, some nut. |
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But basically anything you buy in a shop is imported. Many wood venders only sell to registered companies and only in large quantities. There is only one woodstore in my country that I know of that will sell many different kinds of wood to an individual. It is almost a three hour drive (three hours back). I live close to belgium but the situation is not much better there. |
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I am jealous of you guys! What I wouldn't give for just the pieces of wood you describe. |
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Dear [nuclear hobo] your links do not make my idea baked at all. The idea is for small and or cheap models of jointers to have a fixed table that is not adjustable and can only cut to a depth of one millimeter or so. No less no more. The machine would be more simple so less could go wrong. |
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And also I plan to make my own billiards cue. Imagine my jealousy when I found many wood stores that have a supply of wood especially for cues! All in america. |
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I have all the components for my cue(from a catalog I don't recall). I have partially finished shafts(2, one for breaking one for regular play) Center joints, a big chunk of rose wood for the front and rear end of the butt section as well as some ebony for some inlay/banding work(I was also tossing around adding some canary wood in light yellow and purple heart for accents) I was looking to wrap the handle in a twisted copper wire or stainless strand cable in very small diameter. Lastly i was going to turn a polished or blackened copper butt cap and possibly center rings on my metal lathe. |
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