Half a croissant, on a plate, with a sign in front of it saying '50c'
h a l f b a k e r y
Why not imagine it in a way that works?

idea: add, search, annotate, link, view, overview, recent, by name, random

meta: news, help, about, links, report a problem

account: browse anonymously, or get an account and write.

user:
pass:
register,


                                                   

Biequatorial disorder

Horizontally polarised mental health
  (+3)
(+3)
  [vote for,
against]

A bipolar condition can involve fluctuation between difficulty in seeing the positives and difficulty in seeing the negatives, sometimes with associated beliefs which correlate poorly with those of the majority. This could be seen as a vertical fluctuation in one's mood - sometimes it's up, sometimes down.

This is not the only option. One could also weave back and forth. That is, one's beliefs could simply become poorly supported by evidence to an increasing degree, entering a state where one is positively, or perhaps forwardly, delusional, then swing back to an opposite state of negative delusion, or backwardly delusional.

In the second state, rather than having ideas which are intrusive, overvalued and held persistently in spite of evidence to the contrary, one could have ideas from which one is apathetic, considers unimportant and held persistently in spite of evidence in favour. In other words, one might become solipsist or extremely sceptical, living subjectively not in a world of one's own but of others'.

The Cotard Delusion is the belief that one is dead or does not exist. This is the kind of thing i have in mind, except that i'm also thinking of excessive rationality.

To be honest, i'm not sure this makes any sense at all, but in a couple of days it will, then two days later it won't again, and so on.

nineteenthly, Jan 15 2012

[link]






       It's called "Jointing The Liberal Democrats", and it's Baked.
8th of 7, Jan 15 2012
  

       Excuse me, I have to go visit a two-bit shrink about a half-baked mental condition.
lurch, Jan 15 2012
  

       Minus Cotard's Syndrome, this is a fairly apt description of what I did last Wednesday.
Alterother, Jan 15 2012
  

       I might be being dim here*, but (a) I don't quite see what it is that you're proposing and (b) I don't at all understand.   

       Are you inventing a new mental disorder?   

       You seem to be proposing a mood swing which is orthogonal to the {oversimplified} up/down of the bipolar disorder which we all know and love. But then I don't see the distinction between bipolar's mania/depression and your positively- unsupported and negatively-unsupported states.   

       Perhaps there's yet another orthogonal bipolarity which alternated between understanding halfbakery ideas and not understanding halfbakery ideas. If so I am in the latter state.   

       *obviously not; this was intended as rhetoric.
MaxwellBuchanan, Jan 15 2012
  

       //This sounds like a description of//   

       In which case it's a description of straightforward bipolar. Bipolar is a complete stripping away of all illusions in one state, and an overabundance of illusions in the other.   

       Unfortunately, I haven't worked out which of those two states corresponds to the highs and which to the lows.
MaxwellBuchanan, Jan 15 2012
  

       //Confidence really needs a vehicle, a project, and if you haven't currently got one then its great to be a sheep for a bit.// Or a horse for a bit.
spidermother, Jan 16 2012
  

       Further, following the sage advice:   

       When in danger or in doubt,
Run in circles, scream and shout.
  

       and assuming the non-euclidian topography implied, would someone who is both bipolar and biequatorial run clockwise or anticlockwise?
spidermother, Jan 16 2012
  

       Would a person with this disorder exhibit Lissajous fluctuations, instead of boring old mood swings?
mouseposture, Jan 16 2012
  

       Yes and yes.
Alterother, Jan 16 2012
  

       I see up-and-down mood swings and fore-aft mood swings... what about side-to-side mood swings? And would this 'condition', (detest the word disorder, disorder implies that the norm must be the propper order, and that just ain't so), be called multi-lobal?   

       Yes.
methinksnot, Jan 16 2012
  

       //multi-lobal// Polylobal?
spidermother, Jan 16 2012
  

       I've described the swings as fore and aft rather than sideways because sideways would mean left and right, and it would make it sound like someone was a floating voter or something.   

       [MB], i'm very attached to the idea of depressive realism, but depression can also include unrealistic beliefs, for instance that one is unlucky, that one is dead or that people close to one are in danger, so it's possible to be depressed about the wrong things. Depression can involve the acquisition of false beliefs.   

       I have a sort of Aristotelian view of virtue and vice here. The vices of cowardice and recklessness are opposite ends of a spectrum with courage between the two (but not in the middle). Mental health could be seen similarly. Without attributing blame, depression could be seen as a vice, i.e. a cognitively maladaptive approach, where difficulties are imagined and negative beliefs emphasised. A manic state is the opposite: ease is imagined and positive beliefs emphasised.   

       It seems to me that there is something missing from the picture of mental health. Looking at mental illness and health as a spectrum of adaptive behaviour, at one end there are minority beliefs and overvalued ideas. These two things seem to encapsulate most of what are generally thought of as mental health problems: phobias, harmful paraphilias, obsessions, paranoia, schizophrenia and bipolar disorder - to me, all of these seem to fit that model. But where's the other half? Where are the mental health problems which involve insufficient obsession, the lack of rational fear, belief systems which err too far on the side of caution? Solipsism would be an example of this kind of problem. However, one could be happy and solipsistic.   

       I'm saying that for some reason we see only one side of the spectrum. Is this because the other side doesn't exist or that what we think of as mentally healthy often isn't?
nineteenthly, Jan 16 2012
  

       // this was intended as rhetoric //   

       It may well have been intended that way; unfortunately it was assumed to be a simple and obvious statement of fact.   

       // orthogonal to the {oversimplified} up/down of the bipolar disorder which we all know and love //   

       By logical inference, the 1-D "continuum" of Bipolar disorder could be thus be projected into 3 or even 4 dimensions.   

       // Lissajous fluctuations //   

       Oooh, that would be a bad sine ....   

       // depression can also include unrealistic beliefs, for instance that one is unlucky, that one is dead or that people close to one are in danger //   

       .. or indeed that the part you're playing in a Coalition government is in some way meaningful. Like we said, the Liberal Democrats.   

       // there is something missing from the picture of mental health. //   

       It's that bit top left, there's a bit of sky and part of a tree on it. Shake the box, it may have got caught somewhere. Then look under the table.   

       //Where are the mental health problems which involve insufficient obsession, the lack of rational fear, belief systems which err too far on the side of caution? //   

       They're classified under "essential qualities of character" for some careers.   

       // Solipsism would be an example of this kind of problem. //   

       No, it wouldn't, since the "problem" would only exist in the "minds" of the constructs with which the thinker populated their imaginary world.   

       // However, one could be happy and solipsistic. //   

       Possibly, however the assertion is not amenable to proof.
8th of 7, Jan 16 2012
  

       //Where are the mental health problems which involve insufficient obsession, the lack of rational fear, belief systems which err too far on the side of caution? //   

       i) //insufficient obsession// - classic depression - lack of appetite, motivation, loss of "meaning" in life - lack of any kind of belief positive, or negative.   

       ii) //lack of rational fear// - classical sociopath/psychopath   

       iii) //belief systems which err too far on the side of caution?// OCD, paranoia, neuroses etc   

       //Is this because the other side doesn't exist or that what we think of as mentally healthy often isn't?//   

       I think it's the result of taking "Bipolar" as a straw- man, suggesting that it is a catchall describing *any* possible definition for mental health problems (which, perhaps it is becoming - it's certainly more fashionable, in the same way "neurotic" was fashionable in the late 'seventies, or "depressed" was in the 'eighties etc) and highlighting the emergent problems that might exist with that approach, were things that way organised.   

       I quite like the idea of scepticism being relabelled as a mental illness, but at the same time, I don't, as it suggests there's some kind of authoritative judgement that can be made around someone's internal dialog that can be decided upon as being right or wrong. I'd much prefer it if we were to all step away from labelling things as being linked to mental health, and instead talk about (maybe even teach) pragmatic techniques for clear introspection and effective mood management. In some countries this might be called Meditation, or Praying - I was encouraged to hear the other day that there have been some scientific backed evidence promoting a secular form of meditation known as "mindfulness" that (I seem to recall) has been shown to promote general health and wellbeing.
zen_tom, Jan 16 2012
  

       // I quite like the idea of scepticism being relabelled as a mental illness //   

       We don't believe you. We think you're just saying that for undisclosed motives of your own, and actually have quite different opinions.   

       We quite like the idea of paranoia being relabelled not as a mental illness, but as a rational approach to an implacably hostile and unpredictable Universe.
8th of 7, Jan 16 2012
  

       You're all insane.   

       Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only genuinely crazy person* left in the world. Then I stumble across a discussion like this one and it reminds me that there are at least a few others, either discussing or being discussed.   

       (*If anyone thinks I'm joking, consider this: I wasn't kidding about last Wednesday. I'm really that nuts.)
Alterother, Jan 16 2012
  

       Ditto.
Severe alienation just made me slightly paranoid, introspective and overly analytical about the motivations of others... at least once I stopped trying to be like everyone else.
  

       Before that was... well it was not so good.   

       I've given a lot of thought to mental illness.
When you see enough loved ones and other people drown in their own minds it really makes you wonder. Made me wonder anyway.
  

       When the alienation and plain 'ol shit 'n abuse were too much growing up and I started developing these various... I called them quirks, looking back I suppose they were budding psychosis, (that word tastes bad on the tongue), there was no way to really stop them. If I clamped down on one, another would take its place. They were... defense mechanisms.
My mind was trying to heal itself. Since I'd seen what happens to others when they lose their grip and realised I was well on my way to losing my own I let it do what it seemed so bent on doing.
If it was going to shatter anyway maybe I could control the break and hold the peices together, so I... I dunno, I jumped down its throat.
I made it show me just how bad-ass it was. (bit of a hail Marry pass there)
When it had finished with me, (let me tell ya, it has control of each and every single one of the glands in your body and its apertures), and I was still egging it on... then all of those other quirks vanished like the smoke that they were, other than the one I gave it for its own.
  

       Since then, it feels like I'm doing the opposite of lucid dreaming. Like the part of my mind normally asleep is awake with me. Like it never wanted to have to put me through those things, it just wanted to heal so the more I fought it, the worse it got.   

       Now take this for what it's worth, I have no education on the subject just my own experiences, but I think that by treating the individual symptoms of mental illness we do the exact opposite of what folks really need in order to cope.   

       I guess what I'm saying is that there is a purpose to mental illness. I think that our minds have been trying to this thing I stumbled onto by circumstance and chance for a very long time... and that it didn't need to be so damned hard.   

       If it's crazy, well...
well then you can just keep sane.
  

       I don't exist in a salary kind of way and to some extent i'm being disingenous here but with a serious purpose. This is sort of like those fake diagnoses for happiness and neurotypical states of mind. I don't in fact think of mental illness in this way.
nineteenthly, Jan 16 2012
  

       // The salaried part of me is a waste of my time and existence //   

       ... and hence it follows by logical inference that the non-salaried part of you is a waste of everyone else's time and existance.
8th of 7, Jan 16 2012
  

       //Point of ordnance here// Point of ordure, shirley?
MaxwellBuchanan, Jan 16 2012
  

       // a homogenising collective //   

       "Hegemonising collective". A "homogenising collective" would be a set of cybernetically enhanced life forms who were largely focussed on ensuring the even distribution of fats throghout liquid or semi-liquid dairy products.   

       Uh, oh ... yes. Well, yes, that's right. As you were.   

       // likes cats //   

       Suicidal tendencies too ...   

       // Point of ordure, shirley //   

       No, definitely //Point of ordnance // i.e. the Naughty End of the pointy contact-fused HE-filled artillery round on which we have just painstakingly inscribed, "To [bigsleep], with undying malice, hatred and extreme prejudice".   

       Nothing personal, [bigs]. It's the cats thing, we're sure you understand.
8th of 7, Jan 16 2012
  

       //Hegemonising collective// I thought it was a hegemonising smarm?
MaxwellBuchanan, Jan 16 2012
  

       Collectively speaking, yes.
Alterother, Jan 16 2012
  

       // hegemonising smarm? //   

       That's quite different; a very small group of unctious, wheedling, self-important prats. So small, in fact, that the correct collective noun is a "Milliband".
8th of 7, Jan 17 2012
  
      
[annotate]
  


 

back: main index

business  computer  culture  fashion  food  halfbakery  home  other  product  public  science  sport  vehicle