Half a croissant, on a plate, with a sign in front of it saying '50c'
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Send In The Big Fluffy Blue Cloud

make sure there's not a third one of those pics
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Send In The Big Fluffy Blue Cloud is the new name given to the last helicopter to leave the roof of the embassy when the bad guys have won, and you need to run back to mummy and daddy land pronto to face the music.

It's a simple but effective item that consists of a set of very large inflatable bags that completely enclose a Chinook helicopter when activated, making it look like a rather jolly shape-shifting cloud instead of a great big dark scaredy cat copter.

The inflatables are positioned so that they are well clear of the blades and don't interfere with the ability of the Chinook to fly around. They expand and fully deploy once the copter has made its final departure.

Clear panels at the front enable the crew to see out, but otherwise the Chinook now becomes a series of pulsating fluffy blue blobs that blend in rather well with the sky and can no longer become the third entry pic in a fairly tragic series of helicopters fleeing from another failed war in total desperation.

xenzag, Aug 16 2021

Not again... again https://www.dawn.com/news/amp/1640817
[xenzag, Aug 16 2021]

It may have seemed like good idea at the time ... https://en.wikipedi...ions_of_Afghanistan
but it really wasn't [a1, Aug 16 2021]

Fluffy Blue Clouds https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FHixChYgGRI
Song that generated the title [xenzag, Aug 16 2021]

The last balloon to leave Oz https://www.youtube...watch?v=0hFa3YHXozA
[a1, Aug 22 2021]

Debate site https://www.kialo.com
Designed to discuss controversial topics where people willingly get into it. [doctorremulac3, Aug 22 2021]

ThingsGirlsHate.com ThingsGirlsHate_2ecom
Have an argument... [Frankx, Aug 26 2021]

[link]






       It's sad and horrible but still better to leave than not. Sunk cost is sunk, and America doesn't have the will to do it cheaply or the money to do it the expensive way. The only way to bomb a culture into submission is to kill the enemy, and then kill all of his sons so they don't seek vengeance, and then scatter everyone else to the winds complete with brutal Chinese style reculturalization. Then you need to send your own people to take and hold the land. Slavery optional, but if you do that it needs to last four generations, minimum. You cannot gently repress a culture.   

       Don't get me wrong, I think the whole thing was an evil travesty from the beginning, heavily salted with oil and lies. I'm not saying America should have all but glassed Afghanistan. I'm saying it would have been the only way to win.
Voice, Aug 16 2021
  

       “A strange game. The only winning move is not to play.”   

       “How about a nice game of chess?”
a1, Aug 16 2021
  

       Winning move is an elected monarch who's totally into minarchism shackled so that each of the next monarchs remain bound to the first.   

       This is entirely the reason that I am even running for the office of Benevolent Planetary Sovereign.
A vote for me is a vote for you.
  

       I smell backroom deals and propaganda.
Voice, Aug 16 2021
  

       "I love the smell of opium first thing in the morning - it smells like victory" Taliban
xenzag, Aug 16 2021
  

       "Never get involved in a land war in Asia."
a1, Aug 16 2021
  

       The entire episode is so appalling that you couldn't make it up. As soon as Trump gave the leaving date to the Taliban, the die was cast, and now the chickens have come home to roost, while another set of chickens fly off leaving a total mess in their wake. As everyone else runs out of the room Biden will be left with the dead baby on his desk. Only a total idiot would not have known this would be the outcome. The Taliban ran rings around the Americans, especially the ultra moron Trump, dragging their allies into the mire with them. I imagine Taiwan are in great fear now as to what the Chinese may feel emboldened to do given this complete failure.
xenzag, Aug 16 2021
  

       I don't know, things were pretty stable, gradually moving in the right direction, even...
  

       The real way to win is to set things up and provide support for people to have a decent life in accordance with their culture, and can see a future for their children.   

       It seems like all they had to do was not fuck up the end-game.
Again.
Loris, Aug 16 2021
  

       //"I love the smell of opium first thing in the morning - it smells like victory" Taliban//   

       Not saying they're nice people or anything but the Taliban actually reduced opium farming (& thus export) during their original tenure (being against it for religious reasons as they were) while in the immediate aftermath of the US led invasion (when no one was too bothered what farmers were doing, being too busy shooting at each other) it likely saw a relative boom & upsurge so that might have more accurately reflected reality if it had been.   

       //"I love the smell of opium first thing in the morning - it smells like victory" Bush//   

       It's always a good idea to try not to fall for too much propaganda & lies [xen].   

       Do you need reminding that there were no WOMD in Iraq & that given where he was when he was found bin Laden' probably wasn't even in Afghanistan at the start of that war?   

       That given those two facts the excuses for both wars were patently false & probably lies?
Skewed, Aug 16 2021
  

       // As soon as Trump gave the leaving date to the Taliban, the die was cast //   

       THIS die was cast back in 2001 when the US decided to try something where so many others had failed. Not excusing Trump or any administration since Bush the younger. but NOBODY seems to learn from history (link).
a1, Aug 16 2021
  

       //The Taliban ran rings around the Americans, especially the ultra moron Trump//

I know you have an internal love affair with the former president, but if you could confine your fantasies to something a little more realistic than giving credit to one man who came in 8/10ths of the way through and then left 9/10ths of the way through it would make you look a lot more sane.
Voice, Aug 16 2021
  

       //make you look a lot more sane// I've never worried about looking sane, especially here, and take the idea of looking not so sane as a great compliment. What's your idea of a sane person? How about the ones who imagined they could "do a great deal" with the Taliban? You call that a good example of sanity? I call it an episode worthy of Borat. I prefer the idea of big puffy helicopters instead of videos of people clinging in desperation to planes taking off. At least my idea was a bit of fun. Falling from an ascending plane is no fun at all.
xenzag, Aug 16 2021
  

       [xenzag] I’d never consider you “normal” and I mean that as a compliment, but I’ve never questioned your sanity. Even so, in *this one instance* I can’t fault Trump for being any more stupid or criminal than any of his predecessors or his successor. Plenty of others, sure - crap, almost EVERYTHING else is fair game - just not this one.   

       Can you point to any foreign power of the past two hundred years or so that got in (to Afghanistan*) did anything good that lasted, got out clean?   

       (* added those words on Aug 17 to clarify original intent of my remark after at least one person misunderstood (or pretended to))
a1, Aug 17 2021
  

       //Can you point to any foreign power of the past two hundred years or so that got in, did anything good that lasted, got out clean?//   

       I think there's a risk of "no true scotsman" about that.   

       I mean, you're going to need to qualify each subsection of that. How good? Lasting how long? How much disruption in getting out? Would you exclude an intervention for not being explicitly military in nature? What about if the initial intent wasn't altruistic? And also, perhaps, how foreign - for example, would you discount a situation where the nation retained some links with the intervening nation?   

       I'm not a historian, but I think there are lots of cases where significant change has been made, and the situation now is better in some way than the original situation - but it's not entirely clear that things wouldn't have evolved to be equivalently better without the intervention.   

       For example, there are lots of nations which have devolved from the British empire. My understanding is that in general when the british left, they tried to manage the hand-over and leave things in a decent state. Sometimes this didn't work out, but then again, sometimes it did- and many of them are still now stable nations. I've mentioned several ways you could exclude these - but perhaps if you're excluding everything which could possibly count then your argument isn't worth very much.
Loris, Aug 17 2021
  

       //Can you point to any foreign power of the past two hundred years or so that got in, did anything good that lasted, got out clean?//

Pakistan seems to have done a pretty good job.
LimpNotes, Aug 17 2021
  

       I say we send the boys to xen's neck of the woods next. I'm rather tired of the peanuts being thrown.   

       Trump’s negotiation with bad faith actors botched this badly. You'd think that his experience being a party leader of a gaggle of bad faith actors would've prepared him more.   

       I don't know what to say about Biden.
RayfordSteele, Aug 17 2021
  

       None of the above...   

       Biden isn't in charge of his own dinner menu.
Voice, Aug 17 2021
  

       //Can you point to any foreign power of the past two hundred years or so that got in, did anything good that lasted, got out clean?// There are several examples of a despot based regime being ousted and the country left in a much better state than it was. How about Germany for a start. Korea is an interesting example. The south is clearly a success. Being chased out is never a good ending.
xenzag, Aug 17 2021
  

       [xenzag], I was taking specifically about Afghanistan and failures of foreign adventures there. They should put a welcome mat out for invading armies that says “This won’t end well.”
a1, Aug 17 2021
  

       Ok. Didn't Ghengis Khan quell the entire country rather effectively as part of the Mogul empire?
xenzag, Aug 17 2021
  

       // Ok. Didn't Ghengis Khan quell the entire country rather effectively //   

       Bit of a context shift, innit? My original question was framed “in the past two hundred years or so.” If you want to go back to the Mongols, tell me the “good” they did to justify the slaughter of thousands, murdering all of the men in some provinces and enslaving the women. And describe how and when they left, and if their whole adventure worked out better for anyone than did the UK, USSR, or US efforts from the 1800’s onward.   

       And keeping to your constant theme - find a way to blame Trump, retroactively, for all of it.
a1, Aug 17 2021
  

       I only hold Trump responsible for his own idiocy, and there is a clear connection between America's humiliation here and his laughable "deal making" with the Taliban, who simply saw him as an ill informed clown to run rings around. Watch now as China steps in and secures another stepping stone in their ambition to dominate that entire region. My money is on them being the first country to be invited to a new administration in Kabul. China will use Afghanistan as a crucible to grind the west, just as America used Afghanistan to grind the Russians. The Chinese won't care when Afghanistan resumes being a giant terrorist training camp, as they will make sure that any planes flying into buildings or sport stadiums in the future don't happen on Chinese soil. The Taliban's success in driving out the west will embolden Isis and Al Queda everywhere. That's the bigger unknown price that may well be paid than the one of remaining.
xenzag, Aug 17 2021
  

       As you wish. Afghanistan has been a pile of shards for centuries and nobody was going to make a kintsugi by force. But if you want to blame Trump's bungling above all others, nobody can stop you.
a1, Aug 17 2021
  

       Let's see what the Chinese do. There's more than one way to invade and take over a country. The dumb way involves destruction.
xenzag, Aug 17 2021
  

       [xen] I think your main perceptual problem over the whole issue here is that you believed them when they told you we were winning hearts & minds & right at the start when they told you that was even possible for an invading army going in under the false excuse of a lie .. whether you accept that assessment of the original invasion as valid or not you'd be a fool not to accept that must have been & probably still is how it looked to many Afghans on the ground.   

       Outside of the cities we never turned enough 'hearts & minds' to make any changes permanent after we left.   

       As others have already pointed out to achieve that would have required a stay of at least 80 years & possibly longer.   

       I'm sorry but it's no one else's problem but yours if you believed the lies you were told by people long b4 Trump or Bidden about how well we were doing.   

       So that you now feel let down it hasn't gone the way you were told it would.
Skewed, Aug 17 2021
  

       Me? I never believed anyone, ever. I generally see everything as an opportunity for creative interventions, and stirring shit, which is why I generated this idea. It stirred quite well, and now Westland Helicopters are interested in the actual idea. Result!
xenzag, Aug 17 2021
  

       //Me? I never believed anyone//   

       Really? sounded like you were blaming Trump for a practically inevitable outcome presided over by his successor that was set up for right at the start when he'd nothing to do with it ;))   

       He surely didn't help any granted but I can't see the blame as belonging to him in any significant degree for this outcome.
Skewed, Aug 17 2021
  

       //I generally see everything as an opportunity for creative interventions, and stirring shit//   

       Ah yes, that forgotten chapter in 'How to Win Friends and Influence People:' 'Stirring Shit to Leave a Good Impression'
RayfordSteele, Aug 17 2021
  

       I never saw the halfbakery as a friendship club.
xenzag, Aug 17 2021
  

       // I can't see the blame as belonging to him// Only a complete moron tells their enemy what their surrender date is. It was another of his Benny Hill moments and the Taliban went away laughing and now the Russians and the Chinese have joined them.
xenzag, Aug 17 2021
  

       Sure, & that Benny Hill moment (if such it was) is owned by Bidden, he didn't have to stick to it & we'll never know if Trump would have.   

       Clearly you have some sort of emotional derangement regarding Trump if you actually think you're making logical argument here so I'll just clock out now o7
Skewed, Aug 17 2021
  

       //and the Taliban went away laughing and now the Russians and the Chinese have joined them//   

       Russians got nothing to laugh about : they had their asses handed to them in Afghanistan three times over the last 100 years.   

       Expect Pakistan and China to both start kissing Taliban posteriors for military equipment contracts.
FlyingToaster, Aug 17 2021
  

       //is owned by Bidden//What makes you think I see Biden as being much better than clown Trump? America is like a bull in a china shop especially when it comes to global affairs. The Taliban took full advantage of their stupidity and only had to wait until the ultra moron had his tiny orange hands on the control panel to give them the surrender date. The most powerful military organisation in the world, assisted by Nato’s finest armies kicked out by 80,000 sheep shaggers on mopeds. It just makes me laugh.
xenzag, Aug 17 2021
  

       // kissing Taliban posteriors for military equipment contracts. //   

       Those will be highly lucrative contracts, given Afghanistan's extreme wealth. By GDP, they're just above Madagascar and about 10% below the Democratic Republic of Congo.
a1, Aug 17 2021
  

       If you really saw Bidden as being as bad as Trump you wouldn't be so desperate to assign blame to Trump regardless of other more obvious assignees (like the one who actually left on the declared date) nor so ready to find non-issues like declaring a withdrawal date as something to blame someone for in the first place. Do you really believe that it would ever be done any other way, that any other president would have withdrawn without saying they were going & setting a date so the Afghans could have woken up one morning to find the US had snuck out in the night without telling anyone they were off? because other than staying indefinitely (at a cost of $300 million a day according to Forbes) that's the alternative.   

       No other president would have just snuck out & left like that and if they had everyone including you would have bitched even harder & Afghanistan would have fallen just as fast so it's a ludicrous made-up complaint.   

       You're just talking shite for the sake of talking shite & It's not even clever or amusing shite (which I'll admit is what I'm mostly here for) so I'm just not interested.   

       [If your real complaint is we shouldn't have left yet or we shouldn't have left at all then just say that but the complaint you've actually made is pure bovine effluent]   

       Sorry but I just have no respect left for you, your opinions or anything you have to say [xen], goodbye o7
Skewed, Aug 17 2021
  

       // Let's see what the Chinese do. There's more than one way to invade and take over a country. The dumb way involves destruction.//   

       //brutal Chinese style reculturalization//
Voice, Aug 18 2021
  

       //they had their asses handed to them in Afghanistan three times over the last 100 years. //   

       And then America said, See that hornet nest that Russia stuck its hand into? Haha, silly Russia. I'm going to put my big American wang in there instead!   

       My opinion on a hypothetical Chinese attempt is different since China has no compunction about and has over a thousand years of experience with occupying a nation for the required generations and brutally repressing anyone who complains. Well on the other hand Middle Eastern peoples have three thousand years experience resisting occupation. So maybe a toss up? At least it will be a real contest.
Voice, Aug 18 2021
  

       //Sorry but I just have no respect left for you, your opinions or anything you have to say [xen], goodbye o7// Yet here you are floundering in defeat, and not a word said about my sincere attempt to provide a creative idea to disguise a major icon of America’s humiliating exit. What's your best idea for the same visual scenario?
xenzag, Aug 18 2021
  

       //occupying a nation for the required generations and brutally repressing anyone who complains// The Chinese do that but would you also include the Indigenous North Americans in that same analysis?
xenzag, Aug 18 2021
  

       //would you also include the Indigenous North Americans in that same analysis?// No, for many reasons. America:

-Didn't really get experience out of it relating to how to do it right
-Didn't do it deliberately. It was a series of failures, not such deliberate and considered acts amounting to genocide
-Didn't result in Indians using chopsticks because they weren't allowed knives or growing proud of an awkward hairstyle they were once forced to adopt
-Didn't deliberately wipe out any tribes completely
-Only did it once
-Actually felt bad about it on numerous occasions, in general and tried to make up for it in various ways
-Didn't include the forced cultural assimilation part
  

       I'm not saying America did right by the Indians but there's no comparison between the evils levied against various peoples in China's past (and present!)and what America did.
Voice, Aug 18 2021
  

       You're mistaking contempt for defeat [xen].
Skewed, Aug 18 2021
  

       //My opinion on a hypothetical Chinese attempt is different since China has no compunction about and has over a thousand years of experience with occupying a nation for the required generations and brutally repressing anyone who complains.//   

       The current rulers of mainland china, the Chinese Communist Party, have been in control since 1949, when the former rulers (the Kuomintang) were driven out to Taiwan. I don't think there's much sense in claiming continuity of rule.   

       //////occupying a nation for the required generations and brutally repressing anyone who complains//////
////The Chinese do that but would you also include the Indigenous North Americans in that same analysis?////
//No, for many reasons.//
  

       I feel like you're arguing a different point to xenzag, Voice.   

       xenzag is saying that the american indians experienced genocide, and ... well, they obviously did. Nits make lice, and all that.
But what you're really trying to say is that the Chinese have much more effective ways of changing a culture than the Americans.
(I'm uncomfortable with the amount of euphemism there, but it's couched as diplomatically as I could manage.)
  

       I honestly doubt China will do anything other than try to trade, and perhaps build a relationship and encourage development with aid.
Loris, Aug 18 2021
  

       //I honestly doubt China will do anything other than try to trade// I think that's naive. China will almost certainly try to take full advantage of the West's humiliation, especially that of America. One way to do this is to show themselves being fully engaged in nation building. Trade is a two way process, but Afghanistan has nothing to offer the Chinese except this opportunity in exchange for a lot of recourses.   

       As Alan Sugar often repeats in the Apprentice: "who is responsible for the failure of this task?"
xenzag, Aug 18 2021
  

       Cloud-related post; I saw a giant puffy white cloud in the sky over my house today, shaped like a big ole croissant. I tried to get a photo, but I was on my bike and by the time I got off it had changed into a big ole something else. Sorry.
blissmiss, Aug 18 2021
  

       ////I honestly doubt China will do anything other than try to trade// I think that's naive. China will almost certainly try to take full advantage of the West's humiliation, especially that of America. One way to do this is to show themselves being fully engaged in nation building. Trade is a two way process, but Afghanistan has nothing to offer the Chinese except this opportunity in exchange for a lot of recourses.//   

       So what you're saying is that China might try to build a relationship and encourage development with aid?
It would have made a lot of sense if the sentence you quoted hadn't stopped there, but had gone on to say that.
Oh, wait.
Loris, Aug 18 2021
  

       I said what I think will happen. China has nothing to gain from Afghanistan except by using the place as a means to humiliate America. It doesn't take much imagination as to how that would be realised. It's already happening. Imagine those psychos having a seat at the UN.
xenzag, Aug 18 2021
  

       //xenzag is saying that the american indians experienced genocide, and ... well, they obviously did. Nits make lice, and all that.//   

       Xenzag is not just saying there was a genocide. He's drawing a moral equivalence between two massively different scales of evil. It's like saying "Sure Tommy stabbed Sarah, but look, Billy poked Jane with a thumbtack ALL WEEK."   

       //if their whole adventure worked out better for anyone//   

       It worked out way better for the Mongols than later attempts at terrorizing the region did for their attemptors.   

       //I honestly doubt China will do anything other than try to trade, and perhaps build a relationship and encourage development with aid.//   

       What, with Afghanistan? I tend to agree. They've got their hands full between ethnic cleansing at home and the annexation of Taiwan, Macao, Hong Kong, and the ongoing efforts in Tibet. And the nine dash line. Can't forget the nine dash line.
Voice, Aug 18 2021
  

       //China has nothing to gain from Afghanistan except by using the place as a means to humiliate America.//   

       How is that even possible? About the tenth time the schoolyard bully is seen with poo in his drawers the comedic material is pretty much used up.
Voice, Aug 18 2021
  

       //I honestly doubt China will do anything other than try to trade, and perhaps build a relationship and encourage development with aid.//   

       Given what they're up to in Africa, which in terms of physical/population size and proximity is a lot harder to deal with than Afghanistan, I assume they will look to trade. Then, if enough stability exists, they'll push urbanization and infrastructure to access space and resources e.g. rare earth ores. I expect they'll also look to build control over the historically dodgy China- Afghanistan border - the Wakhan corridor. It was part of the Silk Road, which the Chinese will be all too conscious of. It's also a drug inlet to China, through one of their more troubled regions. Road/Rail and traffic through those areas will be advantageous to them.   

       China's not afraid of the long game, and knows it's own and others history. A Corridor along the SW of Afghanistan and a few favors from Iran and it's in the gulf.
bs0u0155, Aug 20 2021
  

       //How is that even possible?// The Chinese will find a way to magnify America’s humiliation and defeat. No one can say it’s anything but this, and Biden has taken full ownership now of Trump’s idiocy. The condeference of dunces swallows its own tail. America's behavior in this actually reminds me of the Dutch forces in Bosnia when they handed 7,000 Muslims over to the Serb's death squad. ie totally shameful. The Taliban will run amok before the year is out, slowly imposing their hideous laws and the biggest loss of freedoms will be the women and female children. It's totally depressing, totally detestable and was totally avoidable. I'm not keeping it. [marked-for-deletion] It's not what the halfbakery is for, and I've said my piece.
xenzag, Aug 20 2021
  

       //I never saw the halfbakery as a friendship club//   

       And so influencing people is out, too, apparently. Congrats, then, you've become the first human neutrino.
RayfordSteele, Aug 20 2021
  

       //become the first human neutrino//
Ahem...
neutrinos_shadow, Aug 21 2021
  

       Would a naked neutrino be called a nudetrino?
xenzag, Aug 21 2021
  

       A particle that was just created is a newtrino.
Voice, Aug 21 2021
  

       //newtrino// I believe they use huge tanks of water to detect those ones.
pocmloc, Aug 21 2021
  

       I feel invisible here anymore. Unless you're all hot and heated and involved in the latest argument, there is not even acknowledgment.   

       Break. Not the same vibe as the place I want to spend my time anymore. Geez, we have to watch little battles and big military messes on the news. I used to come here for a little distraction. Now it's nothing short of boring chest-thumping, mixed with a whole lot of "I gotta be right", crap.
blissmiss, Aug 21 2021
  

       I hear you Blissy. I'm sorry you missed the croissant shaped cloud, I would have liked to have seen it.
doctorremulac3, Aug 21 2021
  

       Not to worry. I have 3 more ideas to post to reach the 1500 mark then I'm taking my leave.
xenzag, Aug 21 2021
  

       Hey Blissy, might want to turn away for a minute, I want to respond to xenzag's latest hate on America screed and it might not be pretty.   

       Hey xenzag, this is your guy Joe Biden’s disaster, not Trump's.   

       In May 2021, the Biden Administration announced that US and NATO forces would withdraw unconditionally, effectively scrapping the terms of the Doha Agreement negotiated with Trump's okay by Zalmay Khalilzad in 2020. On this news, the Taliban launched an offensive, quickly advancing ahead of the collapsing Afghan Armed Forces. Biden admited Trump's deal called for military action should the terms not be met by the Taliban. He didn't want to follow through so he just bailed. Go back and listen to his speech, he admits this is the case. He said he wasn't willing to use force, think Trump would have been so shy?   

       There are successful and non successful drawdown and removal of troops. Let’s look at some recent history.   

       Obama pulls out of Iraq, ISIS takes over, changes their name to ISIL to show they’re not just in Syria any more, Obama obediently refers to them as ISIL, says it was all Bush’s fault but there wasn’t anything we could do. Trump got elected, wiped them out and killed their leader.   

       Now Biden pulls the exact same stunt with the Taliban, blames Trump, and then has the gall to say “WE” already got Ben laden when he personally voted not to. If Biden was President Ben Laden might still be alive.   

       Trump said if the Taliban did what they ended up doing he’d crush them, Biden admits this was the plan but that he wasn't willing to do it. This is on the record, nobody denies this. Keeping that credible threat in place would have allowed us to get people out. Joe trusted everything to the Afghan army. He’s on record saying that too.   

       Trump's threats had credibility. Where’s ISIS in Iraq now? Where’s their leader? Credibility is everything when deterring aggression. Think the Taliban didn’t take notes on the destruction of ISIS? And what about Trump’s killing that Iranian general who’s killed hundreds of American soldiers? You can bet Taliban leaders made note of that too. Trump has a track record of going after the head of the snake and THAT gets a snake's attention.   

       And think the Taliban doesn’t know Biden can’t complete a sentence without a teleprompter, and even then mumbles and stumbles through every sentence? Believe me, China and Russia see this too. See that mock invasion of Taiwan? I pray to the Flying Spaghetti Monster that they’re just bluffing.   

       The current situation is the exact same situation we had under the last Democrat president with Iraqi soldiers stripping off their uniforms, abandoning their posts and running in mass from a vastly inferior invading force. Unfortunately this time there's no Trump to come in and hand a devastating defeat to the enemy topped off by the killing of their leader like he did with ISIS.   

       We don’t study our history we’re going to repeat past mistakes. Ask Neville Chamberlain what happens when your conciliatory and weak in the face of aggression. Weakness actually causes war.   

       The Democrats have a proud tradition of screwing things up. In the Vietnam war (that the Democrats started) Republican President Nixon brought the Vietcong to peace talks by saturation bombing raids of the north, negotiated a truce backed by a threat to resume B-52 bombing raids should they reneg. When the Democrats impeached him, the Vietcong saw this as their chance and invaded. The Republican VP Ford asked for aid for our allies, but the Democrat controlled congress turned him down and the Vietcong swept in and murdered thousands.   

       Same old playbook, year after year. Now we’re at the mercy of the Taliban and trying to withdraw from airports they control. And ounce of planning would have prevented this, but no problem, we can blame it all on Trump and the sheep will believe us.
doctorremulac3, Aug 21 2021
  

       You know, I've always said Trumphate was a religion, but I thought it would fade after he was out of office but it's stronger than ever. He actually gives purpose and meaning to some people's lives.   

       There are people who just don't like him, and that's fine, but there are those whose entire lives revolve around the guy.   

       Creepy.
doctorremulac3, Aug 22 2021
  

       [blissmiss], please don't go. We need a sensible person around here (although I partly agree; this place isn't quite the good- crazy it used to be...).
Maybe we need to invoke the old "don't discuss religion or politics with your friends" rule?
neutrinos_shadow, Aug 22 2021
  

       The discussing about politics is all within the annotations. I posted a perfectly sensible idea here that if implemented will prevent all future pictorial icons being created of the last helicopter to leave Dodge. Improvements to the actual idea are welcome. No one needs to engage with any other aspect of what's here, and I have marked the entire posting for deletion, or simply point out that there is no need to read it at all. If I am known here at all then it will be clear that I will always periodically use the process of generating ideas to be provocative and express outrage. I've done this since day one here. I do this in all aspects of my work as a visual artist. I greatly miss 8th and Max, and several others re engagement.......   

       What's interesting is the extent to which those who follow Trump like he's the new messiah can rewrite history.   

       So, let's wallow in shifting the blame around instead of actually doing something to prevent an entire society from becoming enslaved by a type of modern day religious Gestapo. The female population will become Handmaids in black instead of red; gay people will be tossed off buildings; terror plots to attack the west will become even bolder. "Who is responsible for the failure of this task?" I hear two voices at once "Trump/Biden" I added one more voice to make that answer: "America". "When you make a deal with the Devil, you don't change the Devil, the Devil changes you"
xenzag, Aug 22 2021
  

       [xenzag]; that is fair enough.
I actually like the idea. Depending on prevailing conditions, it could possibly be done with actual mist generators instead of inflatable bits.
neutrinos_shadow, Aug 22 2021
  

       I had considered that solution, but the downdraft would disperse the coloured smoke unless it was somehow contained.... hence the inflatable bags....
xenzag, Aug 22 2021
  

       //What's interesting is the extent to which those who follow Trump like he's the new messiah can rewrite history.//   

       I don't follow Trump like the new messiah, I just love the way he pisses off the obnoxious, hate filled people like you. And you're projecting by calling anybody who's not a member of your Trumphate cult a cult member. A cult doesn't necessarily need a god, but it absolutely needs a devil. There are plenty of people who don't like the guy but don't make him the center of their world. You're not one of them.   

       So name one thing I said that's not true. One thing that was a re-write of history, like your re-writing history that you and 8th got along. You hated him and he hated you.   

       Trump is just some guy to me, he's done some good stuff and some bad stuff. He's your entire world. Your entire life centers around hating some public figure and insulting an entire country of hundreds of millions of people on a regular basis, all just to get attention.   

       How about telling me something you love and care about so I can insult it every week the way you insult my country? Or do you have anything other than your cats that you love and care about? Maybe that's why you need this cult like obsession with some old man thousands of miles away from you to give meaning to your life.   

       Pathetic.
doctorremulac3, Aug 22 2021
  

       // downdraft would disperse the coloured smoke unless it was somehow contained.... hence the inflatable bags....//   

       Well, if you’re just going for something more whimsical and less “iconic” than the last helo taking off… Use something other than a helicopter for your evac. Hot air balloons, such as the Wizard used to leave Oz, are more whimsical and could be more easily disguised as clouds - should that even be necessary.   

       Come to think of it, Dorothy chasing after the balloon screaming “come back, don’t leave without me!” has some similarities….
a1, Aug 22 2021
  

       //Maybe we need to invoke the old "don't discuss religion or politics with your friends" rule?//   

       I've suggested having a separate area for this kind of junk, fair warning that it's a thinly veiled, hate filled rant so the rest of us can just avoid it and get about looking at various custard filled inventions, making jokes and just having a good time.   

       Maybe ask yourself this: Would I stand in the middle of the room at a party full of people with lots of different views and start spouting this kind of hate filled divisive rhetoric? Why would you go into a party and start insulting people like that? So now a bunch of the people at the party that were previously having fun aren't any more and they just don't like you. What have you achieved?   

       I put up a link to a debate site, but there are plenty out there. Maybe take it someplace else.
doctorremulac3, Aug 22 2021
  

       In a matter of weeks you won't have to read comments I post at all as there won't be any. I may still post ideas as I have an endless list, but for me the annotations are too full of direct personal insults, and I don't come here for that. If I wanted to be amongst morons I'd go to Trump rallies.   

       By the way //re-writing history that you and 8th got along. You hated him and he hated you.// You know nothing of my private exchanges with 8th, (and Max) by email, which were extensive over several years. You like to create the myth of hatred but that says more about you than anyone else. Trump does it all the time. You have a good teacher.
xenzag, Aug 22 2021
  

       A moron would be somebody who starts this incredibly hate filled, insulting nastiness then gets shocked and offended when somebody fights back.   

       Don't like personal insults? Don't make them.   

       And again with this projecting of your Trump obsession. Trump's your religious figure and center of your universe, not mine. You bring him up constantly, I've never brought him up to start one of these Trump rant fests. Not once. For one thing they're boring as hell.   

       And how many times have I tried to be nice to you by saying you're creative but asked you to stop insulting my country? For somebody who considers themselves to be so virtuous you've certainly stomped on a lot of peace offerings.
doctorremulac3, Aug 22 2021
  

       //For one thing they're boring as hell// Yet here you are, swallowing as fast as you can to regurgitate. Take a breath, or spend some time with your feet in the fridge to cool off.   

       Idea for a fridge with a foot hole flap so that overheated folk can lie on the floor, insert their feet and cool their heels.
xenzag, Aug 22 2021
  

       You can dish it out but you can't take it, typical of bullies. They're cowards deep down, that's why they're always attacking people, to bolster their self image.   

       I've always stood up to bullies like you.   

       But I'll try again, how about just leaving each other alone and dropping this obsession with pushing buttons and insulting people just to get attention?   

       You knock off the hate rhetoric I'll be nice too. Your choice.
doctorremulac3, Aug 22 2021
  

       You being "nice or not nice" to me is of no concern to me. I too have faced down bullies my entire life. Don't get ahead of yourself. You should thank me for making your brain work harder. I'm quite fond of chilli flavoured dark chocolate. Send me some and I'll let you off lightly.
xenzag, Aug 22 2021
  

       If I could send you something to make nice I probably would. Not to be "let off", just to keep striving for peace, something the world is sorely lacking.
doctorremulac3, Aug 22 2021
  

       I did it. It's all my fault. I invaded Afghanistan on my lonesome and also flooded America with illegal immigrants. I personally engineered Trump's rise to power, killed JFK from the tower, and made the Tet offensive real. Now you know who to blame.
Voice, Aug 22 2021
  

       I knew it. Bet it was you who also stole my wallet in the taxi on the way to jfk airport in August 95. Confess! (or end up being made into over scented bars of hotel soap with your crimes stamped on each one as an unlimited edition)
xenzag, Aug 22 2021
  

       I'm fat, but I'm not THAT fat. You would need ten of me to fully list out my crimes.
Voice, Aug 23 2021
  

       Trump is but a symptom... not the disease.   

       I look at our male leaders and I see few 'men'.
Our female leaders reveal just as few 'women'.
  

       I see salesmen.
Both the land of North America and its politicians are for sale to the jighest, (no that's not a typo), bidder.
  

       What did our great-great grandparents figure?... that it would remain un-purchased by people who don't really have democracy's best interest in mind?   

       ...   

       Pardon my French but they were a bunch of totally fucking short-sighted morons.   

       Wanna hear how I really think things are going to go down?   

       'cause I'm gonna tell ya anyway...   

       The indigenous communities of North America have an as yet un-utilzed advantage never before seen in history, (please correct me if I am wrong), whereby they now exist as a country within an existing country with separate rules than that of the countries in which they currently exist.   

       The band who's reservation I lived on was the last nation we encountered and I watched them go from squaler to building a new town in the three years I spent with them.   

       They will be a nation of lawyers and doctors and bankers and casino owners soon.   

       They will buy back the land stolen from them.
They seemed to judge people on their merits rather than their skin or eye colour.
  

       At least they were good to this blue-eyed white boy... during the Oka Crisis... so I had that going for me.   

       Yeah... they're going to buy back their land... maybe they'll let me keep my small portion of it.   

       //jighest//   

       OK, [2 fries], now you're making me nervous. Would you like to spell out what you mean by "jighest"?
pertinax, Aug 23 2021
  

       J makes the H sound in several of the countries doing the bidding for our politicians.   

       //giant puffy white cloud in the sky over my house// Lovely image [bliss]. I also feel out of place in these heated arguments.   

       We all have so much more in common than our differences.   

       Robin Williams quote: "Everyone you meet is fighting a battle you know nothing about. Be kind, always"   

       For those who enjoy heated debate: check out ThingsGirlsHate.com [link] - HB'ers really really disagreeing about a really divisive idea without resorting to name-calling and insults.   

       So when people say "it used to be better", when people delete their ideas (or accounts) and leave untidy holes... when we don't see many newcomers joining in and having a laugh... maybe, perhaps, if we were a bit kinder in our comments, it would be better all round?
Frankx, Aug 26 2021
  

       So eloquently said, [Frankx]. Thank you for expressing your feelings. Going to check out the link now.
blissmiss, Aug 29 2021
  
      
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