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So religion or atheism aren't culture?

Why are these topics under Other?
  (+1, -3)
(+1, -3)
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pashute, Jun 01 2015

Prevent the rot that is culture http://nured.info/r...ot-that-is-culture/
[Ian Tindale, Jun 02 2015]

Why culture is useful and even important https://en.wikipedi...Ideas_and_arguments
Mary Midgley - Countering the previous link [pashute, Jun 10 2015]

Culture in Orcas http://mappingignor...raditions-in-orcas/
Once saw a video about orcas against the giant grey shark [pashute, Jun 10 2015]

Seems I'm not the only one http://tabletmag.co...ts-synagogue-search
I would describe my religion as a bit deeper than his, since I read the texts in their original, and I don't just "pray at a congregation" but both lead the prayers and study it in depth. [pashute, Jun 10 2015]

What to expect once you release yourself from all culture https://www.youtube...watch?v=VAOSPRV4Z4Q
[pashute, Jun 10 2015]


       Religion is more of a pathology than a culture. And atheism isn't a culture - any more than not believing in ghosts, or not fishing, is a culture.
MaxwellBuchanan, Jun 01 2015

       Judaism isn't culture?
RayfordSteele, Jun 01 2015

       Why single out Judaism?
pocmloc, Jun 02 2015

       It's fairly clear to me, there's a taxonomical split here in the category definitions between things that are material things (i.e. "proper" inventions) and "other", where things tend to get a bit more metaphysical.   

       There are of course exceptions, but for an idea site that's taken steps to promote real-life inventions, it seems like a fair split. Or to make analogy to classical taxonomica , religion and atheism are the Halfbakery's prokaryotes, and everything else is eukaryotic.   

       (The existence of the "culture" category destroys this argument however, so please allow me to invite you to look the other way at this point at the shiny thing * - oooh, shiny!)
zen_tom, Jun 02 2015

       Maybe if it was more cultivated it would reach culture
pashute, Jun 09 2015

       Wouldn't atheism be a philosphy ?
FlyingToaster, Jun 09 2015

       I don't know. Is thinking that golf balls are round a philosophy?
doctorremulac3, Jun 09 2015

       Sounds a dangerous cult to me.
pocmloc, Jun 09 2015

       I’ve been described as that (although it might have been autocorrect).
Ian Tindale, Jun 09 2015

       //Is thinking that golf balls are round a philosophy?// No, that would be thinking "round" is the same as "spherical", an entirely different exercise.   

       I was referring to "atheism" as meaning "opposed to religion", rather than "humanist" or whatever.
FlyingToaster, Jun 09 2015

       Atheism isn't a philosophy that exists to oppose religion. Atheism is the null case. Religious thinkers like to propose that they are in the same weight class with the null case, but only because it suggests that they have equal access to the absolute. In reality religions exist in petty opposition to each other, thriving on tribalism and human insecurities. The humans that are atheist are also inclined to tribalism and insecurity, but that cannot be held against the underlying logical principal.
WcW, Jun 09 2015

       Then why do self-proclaimed atheists spend their time attacking religion, instead of promoting their own beliefs ? ie: seeming to be focused on "they're wrong", rather than "we're right".
FlyingToaster, Jun 10 2015

       Because, every day it seems, laws are being passed to foist people's religious beliefs on us against our will. Look at the antiabortion laws, and gay discrimination laws being passed all over the country. Look at the bills being pushed to require science teachers to teach creationism. The only way to stop the onslaught of religious oppression is to attack it at the source, ie the religion itself. Atheists aren't fighting for atheism, we're fighting for secularism, which is the view that religious considerations should be excluded from civil affairs or public education..
21 Quest, Jun 10 2015

       Aren’t those religious people self-proclaimed too?
Ian Tindale, Jun 10 2015

       //why do self-proclaimed atheists spend their time attacking religion//   

       Aside from [21Q]'s response, it is worth mentioning that there are far more atheists out there than you think. The vast majority of them _don't_ spend their time attacking religion.
MaxwellBuchanan, Jun 10 2015

       Culture is a wider thing than belief and superstition, although it involves use of those. Culture is an indication of stasis, where a country, town, social group, organisation or industry decides to give up looking forward and progressing, and settle down and stay where they are.   

       Organisational culture is a particularly easy example to find — it is a bad thing, often nothing more than a modified and accepted form of cargo cult, where people behave, speak and look the way they think they should in order to progress and become more successful. It all bypasses the real reasons for success, focusing on imitation instead. National culture is equally to be eradicated where possible. It keeps nations and peoples where they are.   

       Other peoples from around the world expect certain cultures to be or act a certain way, and when they’re not, it is seen as a loss of their precious culture. This externally applied pressure to keep other peoples, not like your own, exactly where they are in terms of development and participation in the world at large is an insidious form of oppression of one part of the world by another.   

       Going to foreign countries and looking at all the people in their funny foreign clothes speaking nonsensical durka durka language and buying ridiculous foods like snails and bats in the local market makes some very good memories of having travelled and here’s all the photos we took. But when those funny foreigners get out a smartphone or iPad and log onto Facebook to watch cat videos, or take our pictures with an even better DSLR than we’ve taken over there, or occupy themselves doing anything that we think belongs to the “modern world”, we feel that it’s a shame that their culture is eroding.   

       This is oppression, pure and simple, and such attitudes should not be tolerated. Culture has the effect of keeping people where they are, instead of allowing growth, development, movement and improvement. Culture should be eradicated where possible, and viewed with suspicion at all opportunities. Culture is simply an organised belief system, and supersets religion and other similar superstitions, but also includes just plain and simply getting up and getting dressed, going to work, going out afterwards, talking and thinking about stuff. Stop it.
Ian Tindale, Jun 10 2015

       Would you be prepared to make an exception for yoghurt?
MaxwellBuchanan, Jun 10 2015

       Well, I quite like the “style” yoghourt that the greeks make.
Ian Tindale, Jun 10 2015

       //Culture should be eradicated where possible// There some are positive cultural things I'd quite like to keep, like books, the TCP/IP protocol, and cake - but I think it's fair to say much of the rest is largely dross.
zen_tom, Jun 10 2015

       Ah, but if aliens landed, what would they piss themselves laughing at? Our qwerty keyboards, for a start. Books probably not, but would we still be using TCP/IP as it stands in the year 2525? What else have we stalled at without looking further? Cake should have transitioned into hot dog form-factor by now, and hot dogs should have transitioned into ice cream cone form by now, and ice cream should come in a banana form-factor by now.
Ian Tindale, Jun 10 2015

       [Ian] - can you guarantee that your proposals would put an end, once and for all, to Morris dancing?
MaxwellBuchanan, Jun 10 2015

       ////Is thinking that golf balls are round a philosophy?// No, that would be thinking "round" is the same as "spherical", an entirely different exercise.//   

       Without commenting on the suggestion that misinterpretation of geometric descriptors is somehow a philosophy, I'll point out that "round" and "spheroidal" are not mutually exclusive concepts, any more than "pedantic" and "annoying". (My teasing of the friendly, respectful variety F.T.) Both descriptions can be accurate though referring to different aspects of that which is being discussed.   

       Golf balls ARE round, as well as being spherical. To ascribe roundness only to two dimensional objects reduces to some extent the usefulness of the word. A tire is round while being torus shaped as well. The word "round" is useful in describing the first layer facts of certain objects. Balls, wheels, etc. "Is the coin round?" "Yes." Is it spheroidal?" "No." A football is round on one axis and ovoid on another.   

       I should make this my new standard submission to any religious, theological or ontological discussion as it's about as useful as any.   

       I will say though that not all religions are the same. Some offer useful ways for people to learn to get along with their lives and associate with others while there are some religions that are positively toxic by any measure. Won't get into which is who, but I think that's pretty self evident.
doctorremulac3, Jun 10 2015

       Yeah, those bloody buddhist extremists.
Ian Tindale, Jun 10 2015

       And don't get me started about the Quakers.
doctorremulac3, Jun 10 2015

       Wait, my brother's a Quaker. He's a good guy.
blissmiss, Jun 10 2015

       Buddhist extremists have done some very bad things, they certainly don't have a perfect record in east Asia.
WcW, Jun 10 2015

       Perhaps it would be prudent to do a poll here on the HB, and find a religion that nobody is affiliated to, or has friends or relatives affiliated to. Then we'd all be able to take swings at it.
MaxwellBuchanan, Jun 10 2015

       Which is why we don't, typically.
RayfordSteele, Jun 10 2015

       //A football is round on one axis and ovoid on another// I think you mean a rugby ball.
pocmloc, Jun 10 2015

       I probably should've seen that coming.
doctorremulac3, Jun 10 2015

       I'm an atheist, and I'm religious. And I'm a practicing Jew too. So there you go!   

       [pocm] marked for category other::cult
pashute, Jun 10 2015

       I'm a non-practicing atheist.
doctorremulac3, Jun 10 2015

       Ve except yoghuertt   

       [Ian] please see links
pashute, Jun 10 2015

       The second link: I wake up in the morning, and on those rare days when the weather is good and everything seems nice for a while, I’m grateful — who to? Me of course, I’m the one perceiving it. Who else is there? There is no other, there’s only me, I’m grateful to me. I exist and I’m grateful for that. Others don’t exist (in the same way that only I exist) to be grateful for, they’re part of the scenery, like the nice weather is. Given the starting conditions (i.e. of being born alive, and as a human) and the subsequent process of living the life, there’s no actual life outside of my internal awareness of myself, but there’s a pretty good film going on that’s lasted all my life so far, which is even more surprising as it has no script, it’s simply reactive and generative and to a certain extent, gives the illusion of interactivity and control.   

       The third link: This is idiot journalism. What the author is calling culture, in animals, isn’t culture at all, it’s organisation. We have organisation and organisational formats and techniques too. What we also have but shouldn’t have is organisational culture, where we start blindly doing things in a certain way because we’re in a specific building, and therefore have to act a particular way, without even really knowing why. That’s just a cargo-cult, a stupid automatic routine in the hope that rewards will land one day if we do it strongly and faithfully enough. The animals in the article are not doing that, they’re merely organised.
Ian Tindale, Jun 11 2015

       I can identify with [pashute]'s link 4th link wholeheartedly, but from the background of an evangelical Christian history and not as a Jew.   

       To hear the Shema modified with 'humanity is one,' is rather encouraging. Hopefully the Israeli government will someday take this to heart.
RayfordSteele, Jun 11 2015

       //What we also have but shouldn’t have is organisational culture, where we start blindly doing things in a certain way because...//   

       First male weaverbird to second male weaverbird: "So, Mike, tell me. Do you ever wonder _why_ we have to fan our tails out and hop backwards while bobbing our heads, just to get to have sex?"
MaxwellBuchanan, Jun 11 2015

       //The vast majority of them _don't_ spend their time attacking religion.//   

       That's because they're in hiding, scared to death of what religious nutters will do to them if they're discovered. Look how many atheist bloggers have been hacked to death with cane knives and machetes in Bangladesh just this year.
21 Quest, Jun 11 2015

       I know quite a few people who are blissfully unaware of the fact that they do not believe in the supernatural almost all of the time. I myself would happily avoid eye contact, mumble something non-confrontational and back slowly away if a stranger broached the topic on either side of the issue. To the extent to which I can I try to live as if the religion question was already largely resolved.
WcW, Jun 11 2015

       //Look how many atheist bloggers have been hacked to death with cane knives and machetes in Bangladesh just this year.// Well then, not going to Bangladesh would seem a prudent measure.
MaxwellBuchanan, Jun 11 2015

       That dictum has served my family well for generations.
doctorremulac3, Jun 11 2015


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